[LenGroat]

There is an irony in that I live in Portugal and a company in London has just made jingles for a radio station in Portugal, so I’m posting this link for everyone’s edification ~ and to add some variety for those JM’ers who (like me) think THE best jingles come from Dallas…!

http://www.jinglenews.com/2014/05/29/wise-buddah-jingles-for-mega-hits/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Wise Buddah now service a large variety of stations, from the Free group, to Radio 2, to Portugal and beyond – the jingle world has got smaller….

Also ironically Nelson Cunha the Programme Director of ‘Mega Hits’ points out it has some of the longest “Wwwwwoooooooooooowwwwwwww’s”of any jingles ever sung

He says “It’s the claim for every time we listen to Mega Hits and Wise Buddah Jingles! Every time we ask the Wise Buddah team to create new jingles for Mega Hits, we are astonished with the amazing ability they have to create something different, contemporary, and that fits perfectly on our station. Wwwwwoooooooooooowwwwwwww…”

As he says… Wwwwwoooooooooooowwwwwwww…

[professor1036]

Nice jingles…quite pleasant! They’re not exactly my thing…but I can see what they’re trying to do with them. Plus its always nice to hear Emily McIntosh vocals…

Very “Europop”…wouldn’t sound out of place on stations in Benelux or Germany for instance. Hardly surprising considering a lot of their clients are across the continent.

Edit:- Looks like a new KLFM package has recently gone up onto their website.

[Good Time Oldie]

I love the pure energy of both the tracks and vocals – The main female voice sounded like Kim Chandler to me rather than Emily, but hey what do I know

Great job!

[professor1036]

I love the pure energy of both the tracks and vocals – The main female voice sounded like Kim Chandler to me rather than Emily, but hey what do I know

Great job!

Listening to them again…yeah I think you’re right, the female vocals sounds more like Kim Chandler.

[UKJinglesMember]

I just clicked on the link for these and thought I had mistakenly clicked on some old Garage Music (Ibiza Style) CD Link!
God they are sooooooooooooooooooooooo awful….. :0&
Okay maybe if I was 16 years old and tone deaf they would appeal to me but No I’m a Grumpy Old Jingle Anorak!!!!

[UKJinglesMember]

I just clicked on the link for these and thought I had mistakenly clicked on some old Garage Music (Ibiza Style) CD Link!
God they are sooooooooooooooooooooooo awful

Yawn – A typical JingleMad reply. Congratulations. I’m sure Wise Buddah appreciate the constructive criticism.

Thanks for the Congrats whoever you are…..Maybe WB can get back to constructive Jingle making Huh?

[GrahamCollins]

The client is happy and Wise Buddah have presumably been paid, so job well done. Not my cup of tea but then the station isn’t aimed at me so it is very difficult, probably impossible for me to critique these IDs out of context like this.

[Paul]

I wonder why Mega Hits keep going back to Wise Buddah for new jingles if a few users here don’t like the way they sound?

Len I think it’s time to lay off the Wise Buddah and nearly-anyone-bar-JAM ‘bashing’. Personally, I’m tired of it.

Nice to see you can’t seem to find a fault with this package, just the comment from the PD.

[LenGroat]

Paul: I’m confused that you firstly state: “Len I think it’s time to lay off the Wise Buddah and nearly-anyone-bar-JAM ‘bashing’.

But you secondly state: “Nice to see you can’t seem to find a fault with this package”

So I did NOT ‘bash’ it, did I !??

I just quoted the station’s PC….

As I said I posted it to add some ‘variety’, and because it is for the country I live in…

Shall I give up trying to be nice?

[Paul]

You make reference to the package having the “longest “Wwwwwoooooooooooowwwwwwww’s”of any jingles ever sung” which appears to be your usual gripe with WB.

JM used to be a fun place to visit with audio being shared/new jingles and old discussed but these days if you try to talk about a new package the usual people are quick to chime in basically saying ‘it’s not JAM, I don’t care’ or no discussion at all for fear of what comments it will stir up.

[danjamesuk]

Well, it’s been a long time since I wrote a proper essay on Jinglemad.com, so it’s time to take a deeeep breath…

Must confess, I’ve been quick to bemoan Len’s anyone-bar-JAM bashing, but in his defence, I really don’t think he was this time. (In fact, I’ve noticed Len’s generally eased off with his more critical critiques in recent times.)

However, I agree with Paul’s general sentiment regarding the current tone of JM.

There’s a ton of audio on Jinglemad.com that’s come either directly from me, or from collectors I shared it with before the site existed.

So directly or indirectly, I’ve contributed a lot.

I can’t remember the last time I shared anything, however, because I tired of Jinglemad.com a long time ago, when a former ‘happy place’ became just another backstabbing, bitchy old internet forum. I notice a great deal of others have deserted this site too in recent years.

(Another reason I stopped sharing is because it’s rare to get a thank you, but quite likely to see the material slagged off… bear in mind that some of the material I have shared was provided to me by the actual producers, so it’s embarrassing for me and hurtful to them to read pretty harsh, inconsiderate responses.)

The biggest issue I have with internet forums in general is this: real people who hurt, just like you and I, are subjected to harmful comments daily. It’s a breeding ground for cowardly armchair pundits who wouldn’t dare say anything to your face.

I’ve been working with actors on a daily basis for well over a decade, and the vast majority of them are really decent people; I could count the grumpy old b**gers on one hand. Often, they’re fairly introverted. Of course there’s an argument (that could apply to some) that if you spend your life playing characters, you’re possibly not that comfortable about revealing the real you.

It’s not only actors who hurt when attacked by complete strangers on internet forums, but anyone who gives a damn about their work, including producers, composers, session singers and musicians. Even the legendary Jon Wolfert was the target of some ill-conceived and (verging on) slanderous criticism in a recent post.

Question: think of the one thing that you really, really care about. Something you toil and obsess over. The big passion in your life that you feel tremendous pride in. Now imagine how you’d feel if someone came along, compared you unfavourably to everything that’d gone before, or just came straight out and told you you were cr&p.

And ‘grow a pair’ or ‘grow up’ isn’t an acceptable response.

[IainJohnston]

As someone who lurks in various other forums, but isn’t an active poster elsewhere, I agree with Dan and he makes fair comment. And JM IS still actually very “polite” and friendly compared with many other forums. Lets keep it that way.

As I’ve said before, even as far back as the “real names days” of MediaUK I’m sure many JMers know what happens when fair, personal opinion “critIQUE” goes over the borderline into “critISISM”.

As for whether a package is “good” or not – if the Client gets delivered what he wanted, as per the brief, and it does on-air just what he expected – then thats it – pure & simple. (and if they want a minor “tweak” – thats their prerogative).

Collectors (and indeed other professionals) might not agree with aspects – but thats their personal opinion to express in friendly debate, as long as its not abusive to the creators of the work.

As for the package discussed above – it does precisely what it says on the tin. Satisfied client.

HOWEVER…
1) there is a “certain style” of jingle production that is currently “in voque”.

Every company (including WB, RW, TM, et al, and I’m sure JAM if they were asked) provide their own individual “slant” ON THAT STYLE – if its what the client feels they “MUST HAVE” and “LOVE” to use current parlance – they can choose which company to provide what is actually becoming very “samey”, IMPO. But thats “the jingle business”.

Just like different car manufacturers often “spend years of development” just for their “brand new model” to look uncannilly like their major competitor’s “brand new model”.
(Early 1970s “square headlamlp hatchbacks”, anyone?)

2) “current” jingle styles “reflect” what is currently “hit music” – thats a whole separate debate outwith the scope of this Forum (plenty about that “elsewhere”).

It could be said that such “current hits” stuff is vey narrow now in content/style/production (“safe” and other commentry). Also, the target audiences for it listen to radio less & less due to “other platforms”. So no matter how “trendy” the jingles are, the “hit stations” demographics are slowly sliding.

If the “hit music” loses direction and becomes identical and “safe”, will “new” jingles produced for such stations themselves follow a similar path?

If “today’s new music” suddenly broke free from its rut, and jumped from the status quo into something very “sideways” (c.f. late 1970s Disco, or early 80s “New Romantics Synths”), I’m sure ID producers of all flavours would deliver whatever their clients wanted to follow musically.

3) Finally, I make no further comment about the package above, other than, I suggest that JMers READ the “blurb” provided that describes these new jingles.

THEN listen to the following audio – and compare the “styles” and whether those jingles below are similarly describable as in the words in the blurb.

Questions will be asked in class afterwards

[LenGroat]

Paul: please look again – I wrote quite CLEARLY that it was the PC of the station who used the : “Wwwwwoooooooooooowwwwwwww”.

Not me – look again….

HE says “It’s the claim for every time we listen to Mega Hits and Wise Buddah Jingles! Every time we ask the Wise Buddah team to create new jingles for Mega Hits, we are astonished with the amazing ability they have to create something different, contemporary, and that fits perfectly on our station. Wwwwwoooooooooooowwwwwwww…”

Quoting HIS words is NOT criticism.
_____________

Dan/ Iain: I’m pleased you both took time to write at length. I DO think this is a special site and its growth/route is down to us contributors – that was why I took the time to post about a new jingle package on a Portuguese station. I agree with your points, and if people ONLY want to read/play audio we have to accept that. Before now I’ve posted audio that’s had over 100 ‘hits’ in a few hours and only 2 or 3 comments on here- I’m used to it.

I DO think we should discuss MORE the ‘how’ and ‘why’ of jingles. I recently posted an old aircheck, as HOW you use different styles of cuts is part of the ART of jingles. Playing 2 in a row, using them to F>S or S>F, mixing with similar tempo music, is important. Even a GREAT jingle can sound bad if the dj does not know how to use it.

As regards the current jingle scene we have everything from the ‘mini songs’ on Radio 2 (they are a bit long / ‘songy’ to be called jingle?) to the ‘a “certain style of jingle production that is currently in voque”, as Iain calls it.

Maybe the reason we talk more about JAM* is that regardless of which of the last 4 decades their material was recorded in they are all JINGLES, and of various styles to use with various styles of music. In contrast today’s contemporary jingles seem to be used a lot less, and are ‘lumps’ in programme output, unlike the ‘flow’ a station with JAM jingles can achieve.

I’m always happy to discuss more…. and I’ll even put my head ‘back above the parapet’ later as we have some new material for Solid Gold Gem AM..

Len

* Of course as well as JAM we have (have had) many other talented people/companies in Dallas, but none have lasted continuously for 40 years as ONE company. TM ,TM Century etc., came close… and in the UK S2Blue continue with many of the principles that made Alfasound great….

[Good Time Oldie]

Not harsh at all Neal, it’s just how you feel and I suspect others (not all) feel the same too but haven’t got the bottle to say it.

There is a vast Ocean of jingles out there that we could talk about but Paul is correct, start a thread that doesn’t mention JAM and you’ll get just one or two replies OR the same old, same old comments, so I suspect people have stopped bothering. That said, no-one on here is ANTI- JAM, so it’s nothing personal against Jon and his team, we just need/want more variety please.

Perhaps Len and Co could start their own JAM Appreciation site or be given a secret section on here where they can wax lyrical ALL DAY.

As for uploading even more Solid Gold GEM jingles, perhaps you could get a list of people interested in them and send them out privately, or do you do it to wind us up?.

So no Neal, you are NOT alone in your thoughts – let’s bring the fun back please!

[bobgreenradioMember]

funny actually. all on point too.

i fully expect to see business cards posted here for some people as agents for companies theyve been ‘in the bag’ for, for, what seems like forever.

great product has come out of dallas. great product also comes out of a lot of other places too. often far better than the dreck now from hasbeens churning out limp resings.

jingles are the excitement in radio programming. they have to move the same old-same old music along as they and a smart dj tingle the listener.

i love northern italian cooking. i love having a meal in a small family operation created for me in their modest, yet creative kitchen. wonderful. and then theres the olive garden. the mcdonalds of pasta. a big slick consistant factory pumping out stuff that might as well bypass the digestive track…cause its already septic.

same for jingles. the real pams was a small shop zinger. they had the edge. their goods were a hit time after time. its a shame nobody since (ever) has matched this stunningly creative operation.

pams was that little italian kitchen. mmm, yummy. something one looked forward to every time. you never knew what magic would be served up next. unlike now…

[ratnobMember]

Perhaps Len and Co could start their own JAM Appreciation site

Don’t know if I’m part of ‘Len and Co’. If so, I would be flattered if it means people who have been around for a while who still take a great interest in jingles old and new.

But I think it’s a great shame that this site has suddenly descended to this level of personal criticism.

I read lots here that I disagree with, plus lots that I enjoy. Most of the time I don’t have time to comment but accept that – as in the real world (no pun intended) – there are lots of people with lots of views, many of which I don’t share. Such is life.

The difference here is that it’s only jingles. It depresses me that we’d want to tell anyone who shares this quirky fascination we share to remove themselves from the site.

Certainly I’ll be much more wary of commenting in future in case I’m not deemed to be sufficiently ‘on message’.

GB

[mjb1124Member]

I will say that, first and foremost, I am a fan of Dallas jingles (and especially JAM and PAMS). This is the sound I grew up with, the sound that made me a “fan” of jingles, and it’s the main reason why I keep coming back here to read what others have to say (and occasionally post myself). To be completely honest, it’s hard for me to muster the same level of enthusiasm for most of the modern stuff.

That said, while I admittedly joined in some of the bashing in my earlier days on this board, I have come to accept that radio programmers’ expectations for jingles have changed, and that companies like Reelworld and Wise Buddah make professional-quality material that fits with today’s music and is well-suited to modern radio programming needs. There’s no use in continuously complaining about heavy echo, “whoa-oh” vocals, instrumental sonic logos on every cut, and so forth, because these trends clearly won’t be going away for a while. Objectively speaking, these companies’ work should be judged on how well they fit the brief, not on how well they fit jingle standards from however many years ago.

Now, with THAT said, I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with people continuing to share JAM personal cuts or post montages of classic jingles. And to those who wish to see more discussions of modern and/or non-Dallas jingles – why not start some of them yourself? Complaints and personal attacks will only get us so far, whether they’re directed at jingle companies, other posters, or the board as a whole. Ideally, this board should be a place where all types of radio jingles can be discussed in a constructive manner.

[star tetley]

Why have people started attacking each other? We all come on here because we have a common interest. A good debate is healthy and interesting but I am disgusted that members have started making personal comments.
People posting material should be encouraged. If another person doesn’t like it then they don’t need to listen to it.
We all have styles of jingles and companies that we like and dislike and this is a great site to discuss this without abusing people.

[professor1036]

Wow…this thread has altered considerably since my last post!

Seems like a can of worms has been opened here! Well…maybe it’s time for me to put in my two pence worth.

This is a long post…which I apologise for in advance.

Firstly…it has been noted in this thread and in others that JM is a ‘friendly’ place…it isn’t! It used to be, but not anymore. So let’s get over the pretence that JM is a ‘friendly place’, maybe then we can sort all this out and move forward together. A lot of posters took pride stating that at least JM was not like DS, which resembles a bear pit at the best of times. Infact I would say on some occasions, when JM boils over…it can be as bad, if not worse than DS. The recent attack on Jon Wolfert by a poster was personal and way over the line, but that was only one example of what this place can be like.

There does appear to be a ‘hunting pack mentality’ on JM which I believe is causing long term damage to this place, with the same messages going out time and time again dictating their point of view onto everyone else. On the one hand there is what can be ‘perceived’ to be constructive criticism which is actually more likened to downright hostility to a jingle company/package and on the otherhand, no criticism whatsoever of another jingle company/package. If posters go against this logic, they are shouted down. Is that constructive debate? If posters are encouraged to take part in constructive debate, then everyone must be mature enough to accept praise of their favourite company/jingles etc and constructive criticism on the otherhand. Placing forward opposing or alternative views are the whole points of a discussion, not shouting people down.

The two things I’ve found most worrying is that JM has lost loads of fantastic posters over the last couple of years who clearly don’t contribute anymore, including some industry people who I would love to hear their input into the creative process. Even more concerning is that younger, more impressionable posters have been changing their points of view…just to fit in! That is deplorable and should not happen on what is deemed to be a ‘friendly’ forum.

So how do we move forward?

Some housekeeping rules perhaps? Maybe take a leaf out of DS and establish a thread for each discussion and keep to that thread without establishing multiple threads discussing the same thing. If multiple threads appear, they’re merged into the main thread, locked or deleted. There used to be a single ‘Personal Cuts’ thread on here that was added to when people bought cuts or wanted to display their previous purchases. On a minor personal note; I’ve managed to keep all my Skylab purchases to one thread and also the Bob Dinan blogs are also kept in one place…it’s not difficult. Maybe this can be a forum rule so at least it’s all in one place? It saves posters stumbling over loads of multiple threads saying the same thing.

Threads dedicated to discussion of jingle/ident companies could also be established, again to keep everything in the same place, without multiple threads materialising. This could also encourage discussion involving some of the other companies like Brandy, IQ Beats, S2Blue, Pure, Ignite, Zone, David Arnold Music, Top Format etc who are not spoken about very much on here. Plus jingles from around the world, not just in the UK/Ireland or North America.

Admin…perhaps get some competitions going again, like the TM Century competitions from a few years ago! That could bring some fun back here.

But above all we should ALL respect each other’s opinion, even if it opposes our own opinion. Everyone has a right to self-expression and this place should encourage that. We should accept all companies that make jingles/idents and they should be treated fairly. Praise when you need to praise and accept constructive criticism as well. Plus…have fun! That is something that has been lost here on JM! Maybe then we’ll become that friendly place once again.

[IainJohnston]

There are certain “ironies” about certain posts & comments in this thread and other corners that will have some of us having a “quiet chuckle” as it were.

As a proponent of the “friendly place” tagline, if I may be so bold, for those that might not realise it, with some of the leaky older software systems that JM used in years gone by, the JM Admin Mods etc (and all volunteers at that) worked DAMN HARD and OFTEN to clear out all sorts of crud and and “not real jingle collector” people who frequently trolled their way into this forum, with all sorts of intents, and would have made JM a poorer place than it is now without those efforts.

So – lets be aware of the credit that is due to the Site Owner and Admin who DO manage to keep and continue to keep JM to the high quality level that it maintains – even if Members do perhaps get a bit “passionate” over aspects of our hobby at times, at least they care about it!

And wouldn’t now be an excellent time to “lock but leave-readable” this particular thread, Admin?
IJ

[glen]

Like the old saying goes;
It would be a boring world if all liked the same.
Just because I personally do not like RW doesn’t mean they are bad.
Yes Jam and TM are my favs doesn’t mean I dislike the other companies.
We have to have a place to express or opinions. Yes we could start a Jam or Tm appeiaction site but what would that solve.
As I said at the beginning of this that post it would be boring if we all like the samething!
So to Admin don’t change a thing.
Thanks

[RobinBlamires]

This is upsetting to read, but everything (unfortunately) is spot on.

Agreed about the personal cuts thread, though I have something to contribute to that section in a couple of weeks (with the recipient’s permission) that should hopefully lighten things up, and provide the excitement and positive well-researched comments
many enjoy reading.

I get excited by modern day imaging I must admit, even getting rather envious at how certain echo and reverb techniques are adapted, but the stuff from Dallas triggered my interest in radio and will always be at the back of my mind.

[IainJohnston]

Hmmmm…

Perhaps at the very least its time for this thread to be moved over to the Site “feedback” section?

A lot of sweaty T-shirts being washed in public? Or just a bit of pent-up frustration with the current (wandering?) direction of not just this site but the “industries” themselves of which our hobby is just a derivitive but interesting & entertaining sideshow?

ACD succinctly hightlights the frustration that must no doubt exist “behind the scenes” and indeed the “conflict of balance” between the site being “light-touch” moderated versus draconican blootering of anything said that doesn’t “conform” to whatever paradigm of the day/month/year. Can’t be easy for the moderators to moderate the moderators and achieve something that is fair to all views ?

JM historically has been “self-policing” supported by the sterling efforts of the background people.

But the site has ALWAYS “gone in waves” of “very quiet for awhile” or lurching into “handbags at dawn” dueling “debates”. That happens on forums of all kinds, everywhere. And do people “go down the pub” to blankly stare at the (with-the-sound-down) satellite TV for a few hours, or to go and have a good chin-wag?

Maybe some ARE “scared-off” by the actions of a few. Agreed.

On the other hand, if the forum simply became a “vanilla” (was going to say “bland”, but apologies to Paul !!!!) wash of “nothing different to say or hear, or give differing viewpoints on” then it would no longer be a FORUM for DEBATE, and that would bore me off personally from visiting as much.

Many of the posts & points made above are clearly “considerably thought-out” before hitting the “post comment” button. Since the vast majority of JMers are basically intelligent people and not the knuckle-dragging illiterates and hot-heads that populate so many web forums of so many other subjects, perhaps every one of us should again remember the maxim to “count to ten” and read & reflect then EDIT in that “draft mode box” before we charge in?

“Its only Jingles!”

Technical comment:-

I know that the “should there be more specific sections for specific topics?” subject been discussed many times over the years since the inception of the Site.

Whats here now is very much a good Occam’s Razor approach – basically “keep it straightforward, clean, low-clutter and manageable”. But any system evolves over time from “user response” and practical experience – perhaps it indeed means some things don’t have a specific “home” e.g. as rightly said above, no “specific company” areas where those who love/hate/praise/despise individual companies “art” can play in their own sandpits sometimes without always having playground brawls?

I know that the site’s older software systems, despite their other weaknesses, allowed a bit more diversiveness in providing topic sections, but there was a wide and often conflicting “wants” from members for what could be provided. But needed much more “site support”.

Perhaps the current system might have some flexibility that could allow Admin to add a small number of selective highly-specific “branch sections” to supplement the categories currently provided, but without it re-introducing too much clutter or increasing the support overhead?

Maybe a maximum of 3, but certainly a “company-specific” area with subheaders for the “main players”, each (very-well-known past or present) company and maybe “job-lots” for long-gone less-well known ones and also say European producers?

Maybe that would also help reduce “piggy-backing” on to some Threads – and I know I’m personally extremely guilty of that one!

Your (constructive of course) thoughts Gentlemen?

[Good Time Oldie]

Just to get back to what we should be discussing, THE JINGLES, I can confirm that the cool female voice belongs to Tori Beaumont and not Kim as I thought initially, sorry about that

[professor1036]

This is upsetting to read, but everything (unfortunately) is spot on.

Agreed about the personal cuts thread, though I have something to contribute to that section in a couple of weeks (with the recipient’s permission) that should hopefully lighten things up, and provide the excitement and positive well-researched comments
many enjoy reading.

I get excited by modern day imaging I must admit, even getting rather envious at how certain echo and reverb techniques are adapted, but the stuff from Dallas triggered my interest in radio and will always be at the back of my mind.

Wise words Robin…always good to hear what you have to say!

JingleMad should accept all companies that create jingles/idents and they should be treated fairly and with respect. Afterall we all gather on JM because of them. Great jingles do come from Dallas…but there has been some fantastic material created in Seattle, Manchester, London and The Netherlands for example and JingleMad should reflect this more in future.

I love hearing personal cuts…whether they’re from JAM, ijingles, Radioscape or wherever. They’re an integral part of JM and it’s great that members share them here. I just think placing them in one thread (as it used to be) or area of the forum will do more than just tidy things up, but could actually engage more people!

[Author]

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