[TABrown]

Here’s a montage of jingles from PAMS, Thunder, and Sundance for WLS in Chicago

WLS-73to77JingleMontage-tab (2.1) by Tim Brown 12

[kolossMember]

Awesome– As I remember these were all on the air– and those elusive spirit of summer jingles that only seem to exist in airchecks…

[TServo2049]

I’ve never heard those Big 89 of 1974, Big 89 Countdown, Musicradio Awards or holiday jingles. I’m assuming they were Sundance?

I know that the WLS History site has a “Big 89 of 1976” resing of the “Big 89 of 1974” jingle; it’s included among custom/oddball JAM cuts, but I don’t think WLS was using JAM jingles yet in ’76. (Then again, JAM had already taken over the Kershaw/Sundance stuff by then…)

[TABrown]

The Big 89 countdown cuts, musicradio awards, and holiday jingles are from their Thunder package. BTW, on the Big 89 Countdown of 1976, they were using a cut from JAM’s Priority One. I could be wrong, but I don’t think WLS was using JAM on a regular basis untiil 1978.

[TServo2049]

Well, I was close. The only real difference between the Thunder and Sundance WLS cuts is who marketed them. Same writer/arranger, same singers, same musicians, same recording studio. When Tanner pulled out of Dallas for good, Chris Kershaw basically picked up right where he left off.

Interesting about the Big 89 of ’76 – the cut on WLShistory.com sounded exactly like the 1974 one to me. You’re saying it wasn’t a resing of the ’74 cut?

[mjb1124Member]

TABrown might be thinking of the resing of Priority One cut 4 that started with a shout of “The Big 89!”. I can’t listen to this montage from where I am right now, but I’ve heard the “Big 89 of 1976” cut you’re talking about. I don’t know anything about it other than that it was included in a montage of JAM odds and ends on the wlshistory.com website. So assuming it was a Thunder cut, I guess JAM got the rights to resing it somehow? I remember reading that someone saw some Thunder reels in the JAM vault.

[TABrown]

MJB is right. I was referring to the Priority One cut with the shout. Am having trouble finding the Big 89 of ’76 cut TServo mentioned. Will probably find it when I’m not looking for it. Since Thunder didn’t exist then, it’s very possible that parent company, Tanner, did it OR WLS planned ahead and had the various years recorded in advance by Thunder. Tim

[mjb1124Member]

Here’s the montage which contains both the Priority One resing and the “Big 89 of 1976” cut: http://www.wlshistory.com/audio/jx-spcl.mp3

It does sound like the 1976 cut was resung later rather than cut at the same time, and the intro is also different.

[TABrown]

Thanks, MJB. That’s JAM. I included it in my WLS montage here a few months ago. Sorry for the confusion.

[TServo2049]

If JAM resang it in 1976, that would mean that the original cut was Sundance, not Thunder/Tanner.

Tanner retained the rights to the stuff Kershaw did for Thunder, and was resinging them in Memphis by ’76. However, the stuff Sundance marketed was later acquired by JAM, who continued doing resings of them (e.g., for the BBC).

Also, the 1976 version doesn’t have a different intro – it just has a WLS call sing laid over the beginning, while the 1974 version doesn’t.

[kolossMember]

Always like hearing these somewhat obscure cuts; does anyone have the Ticket to Ride cut with the 40-60 sec music bed ahead of it?- I have a copy of it under the promo and always liked the Beatlesesque sound. one other thing noticable when Jam took over the jingles had a brighter friendlier sound—

[TABrown]

TS, All I know is the 1974 cut came from the Thunder reel. Anyway, I don’t think Sundance existed until 1975.

[TServo2049]

OK, if it came from a Thunder reel, then it is Thunder. As I said before, the only real difference is the distributor – both the Thunder and Sundance stuff were written and arranged by Chris Kershaw and produced at the Sundance studios at 4631 Insurance Lane, with the same singers, musicians and engineers.

Sundance existed as a studio before 1975, but that’s when started marketing jingles, specifically because of the end of the Thunder deal. In the case of WLS, some of the cuts in the Sundance package are almost carbon copies of Thunder cuts, so it was obviously intended to replace the Thunder package (and it did).

My current guess: Tanner didn’t bother retaining the rights to the top-up cuts, only the syndicated packages. In other words, Chris Kershaw kept the rights to the non-syndicated Thunder stuff when Tanner pulled out of Dallas, and they passed over to JAM.

Jon Wolfert would probably be able to explain the true story.

[TABrown]

TS, I just wish I could find a copy of the Sundance package. All I have is the demo.

[Barras]

Here`s a photo I took in the JAM Vault, I reckon the Sundance package you`re after will be on one of these Sundance reference reel tapes…

http://www.4shared.com/photo/Bdakqt5F/Sundance.html

[TServo2049]

What David said. I believe that Jon has all of the Sundance tape archives, including whatever Thunder-related stuff wasn’t shipped back to Memphis.

[StarbrelzMember]

My understanding of the Thunder Jingles is they were sung in Memphis and that became the demo… but then Jon oversaw/produced a another session with those music tracks in Dallas, and the Dallas singers (a much better production) were what aired on WLS. They used that “Big 89 of 1974” cut in 75, 76, 77, and 78 for sure… can’t claim to remember if they continued past that.

[bobgreenradioMember]

wait a minute. if thunder “was” pepper (media general) and tm wound up with pepper; wouldnt it stand to reason tm got thunder?
remember, sundance was not thunder, even though it was. sundance came after thunder went. right? so unless jam hit it real lucky on a dumpster-dive at tm when they were throwing out thunder material, i would be surprised to see them having the stuff, where as freedman/cpmg did cut a deal with tm for several pepper and thunder masters. jam made its deal with sundance

[TServo2049]

Starbrelz, to my knowledge the WLS Thunder cuts were completely done in Dallas. They were written by Chris Kershaw and produced at the Sundance Organization studios.

The only Memphis sings for WLS I’ve ever heard were the “For the USA” Bicentennial cuts, which never aired. In fact, I don’t think they were even commissioned by the station – all of the Bicentennial-themed reworkings of the Thunder packages were demoed with the same stations as the originals. It was probably just another case of Tanner demoing a package for a “name” station without their knowledge or permission, which picked up again around ’76-’77 when the major-market deals started drying up.

Bob, JAM doesn’t own anything from Thunder; they just have Thunder stuff in their archives. When Tanner’s arrangement with Kershaw and Sundance ended, all the tracks were shipped back to Memphis, and eventually did end up with TM, then in Tracy Carman’s archives.

Like you, I’m not sure exactly why anything from Thunder would be in JAM’s possession, but Jon engineered those sessions, so he may have dubbed off copies for himself.

Once again, the only person who could definitively answer these questions is Jon Wolfert himself.

Help, Mr. Wolfert!

[bobgreenradioMember]

good point. seems logical (not that that means much any more). i have a haunting memory that jam did scoff up the sundance stuff though. i dont know why or how i remember this, its just “up there”. the other thing is the stuff freedman is still selling from thunder. 1 or 2 packages, and with the wls sig. i prersume he got it from tm.

nonetheless, the thunder project was peppers best product offering. it was simply ‘right’ for the time & place.

[TABrown]

Adding to what Starbrelz said above, I have different versions of the Thunder package demo. (Called Music People) The first one came in a WBT box and the vocals were…less than lovely. Later, I received a demo that matched the jingles that were cut in Dallas. Those jingles were always some of my favorites. BTW, Jam redid the Sundance package and called it the ‘LS package.

[mjb1124Member]

I’d love to see JAM put the Sundance demos on their website. I think these WLS Sundance cuts could work well alongside the classic JAM WABC and WLS cuts that are used on numerous classic hits stations.

[StarbrelzMember]

Resurrecting this thread… does anyone have the “Big 89 of 197x” cuts? 76 has popped up now and then… and 78 appeared recently on Soundcloud (along with 79-83 & 85-86, which were all Jam.) Anyone have 1975 and 1977?

[mjb1124Member]

Jon Wolfert played all of these on his Rewound Radio show not too long ago (I want to say this past New Year’s Eve?). He said that the later versions were “officially” JAM acapellas, which just happened to fit over the full Thunder track that WLS had access too.

I assume the scoped show where he played these is still up, just have to figure out which one it is for sure.

[StarbrelzMember]

Thanks! Found it. Unfortunately, Jon skipped over 1975 and 1977. This Rewound show was obviously the source of that Soundcloud posting. Sigh.

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