[Inferno]

Wise Buddah have now updated their website at last and it looks good with plenty of demos.

http://www.wisebuddah.com/

[ratnobMember]

Certainly lots of stuff there. The quality, to my humble ears, is very mixed. Listen, for example, to the dreadful Richard Hammond, Radio 2 jingle, and the woeful “pirate” Johnny Walker cuts. But perhaps I'm living in an age when jingles were memorable, exciting and creative.

Sorry.

[MarkajPaxton]

Must say I do like the Richard Hammond Cut, but as for the JW cuts…awful! Jam i'm sure could have done a much better job!

[LenGroat]

Reference the comments by Mark 'the quality is awful', and Geoff, I agree the Richard Hammond jingle is 'dreadful'. Then again he's hardly a dj so what does he know about radio/jingles? And the answer to the Radio 2 ident problem is obvious when you look at the details on Wise Buddah's website:

Over the past four years, Wise Buddah have been commissioned to produce new imaging for most of the new BBC Radio 2 roster as and when they come to the station. The list includes some of the UK's best known radio broadcasters as well as some of the leading names in the UK entertainment industry; Chris Evans, Johnnie Walker, Russell Brand, Michael Ball, Dermot O'Leary, Stuart Maconie, Mark Radcliffe, Terry Wogan, Steve Lamacq, Richard Hammond and Trevor Nelson.

When a RADIO station is top heavy with people from TELEVISION or 'semi personailities' (I have NO idea who Dermot O'Leary and Trevor Nelson are) you end up with a series of disconnected programmes – NOT a station sound. Hence the jingles end up being s t r a g g l y and produced over a long period of time, 'four years'. This is the case for the Johnnie Walker jingle – just one long cut with 'mix outs'. It is in fact a THEME (in current trendy terminology) not even a proper (working) jingle – ironically ripped from 'his' original jingles, including the sonovox name check that Radio Caroline 'pirated' and never actually bought.

I would suspect that Wise Buddah get the work as they are in London, and Radio 2 is in London. Radio 2 probably use a London based jingle company, rather than a Dallas one for political reasons. And THAT is why all this happens, its roots are very detached from the QUALITY and CONSISTENCY of the product.

Do you remember the old addage 'You have a great face for radio '? Somehow it's all got reversed and the end result is a station full of people who are better suited to television.

It's a GREAT pity that someone as good and 'real' as Johnnie Walker is on a station full of such people.

Finally, I see that one BBC local radio station has also gone to Wise Buddah now. The BBC Radio Derby demo consists of ONLY instrumental cuts with a 'logo melody', all done in 'Bryan Adams meets Stealers Wheel style' – but there is NO vocal ident!

Why on earth would ANY radio station think it unnecessary to sing their name, let alone one of the more forgettable BBC local ones!? They could have saved TAX PAYERS MONEY and used a few 'library music' tracks with the 'melody logo' played over the top by the local church organist!

[Inferno]

The score so far…

Jam 3 – Wise Buddah 0

[RobinBlamires]

I wouldn't like to say this but a bit of homework needs to be done!

Richard Hammond did actually hail from BBC Local Radio many years ago, having started at BBC Radio Cumbria or Radio York (I forget which was first) so I think that statement is a bit unfair.

And Trevor's quite an established radio figure as it is.

Then again this is a jingle site and everyone's entitled to their opinions.

[LenGroat]

Hello Robin

Much of the content on this site is superficial ~ whether a jingle is 'good' or 'bad', which company is best, how many stations bought 'xx package', or just nostalgic comments.

My comments were designed to analyse WHY the majority of contributors here like one kind of jingle, whereas British radio programmers favour something very different. Looking more deeply at why it is jingles do not 'fit' or 'work' on a given radio station (as we see it) goes beyond the realm of casual chat. In the case of Radio 2 the fact is that most of the Wise Buddah made 'jingles' are for 'presenters', not 'djs' whose 'craft/art' is practiced five days a week. They are mainly 'specialist presenters', who tune into one small area of music, or they are mainly television presenters.

In the case of Richard Hammond, his Wikipedia 'radio and tv' CV has ONE line about his radio work:

'Early in his career, Hammond worked at many radio stations, including Radio York, Radio Cumbria, Radio Leeds, and Radio Lancashire'

and TWENTY SIX further lines about his tv, media, self publicity work.

Surely working briefly on a number of BBC stations before a television career does not 'make' someone a deejay ~ my definition of a deejay would be Johnnie Walker.

To bring this back to a pure JingleMad topic, one definition of a deejay would be someone able to use jingles well, with music, to paint pictures/ create a programme/ station sound. But if you don't give your deejays proper jingles, but 'themes', they cannot do that ~ it's just a 'slab of sound' played every so often between records?

[IainJohnstonMember]

To add my tuppence-worth, a “true” deejay should also at least be able to “work the desk”,
whether its simply as little as at least controlling his own mike-fader (and a tech-op doing
the rest) or full self-drive (even if today that means pressing F10 etc).

Wogan can do it. Winton (used to be able to)
Brand, Ross etc apparently stand in the middle of a room under a slung-mike (and pose/posture).

Just to add to it…
On one late-night Radio 2 “show”, someone Lamar(?) mumbles & monotone lip-speaks close into
his mike with total lack of presence or larynx definition (as does Dermot O'Leary – and thats not
simply his Irish accent!). Compare with ex-TV-presenter Bob Harris – who DOES “get it”.

Certain other non-radio-origin “presenters” DO seem to understand “mike presence”, voice
projection etc – e.g. Lulu believe it or not!

Ultimately, the jingles themselves are “tools of the trade” and the “DJ cut” is effectively their
“Business Card” to promote their programme within the overall “sound” of the station (and the
station main cuts are the “letterhead” & “flyers”. Using these “tools” badly is as effective as a
joiner using a fret-saw to hammer-in a screw!

[IainJohnstonMember]

PS – as per Len's comment on “theme” jingles…

Apparently the “jock” no longer selects his jingles on many stations – the Selector software or
whatever can be programmed to decide for itself which jingle to play from a “jingle playlist”?

Maybe thats why one rarely hears the “mood” or pace being varied during a programme,
e.g. a slower/soft record being slid into by a slow or soft-textured (or even “transition-to-slow”)
jingle. Many cuts seem to be at virtually the same tempo?

Another “deejay skill” being lost to the non-thinking computers?

[MarkajPaxton]

Still can't fathom out why some stations (and it seems to be bbc locals that favour them) use a full package of instrumental only idents – even if they do have a stong logo! Why go to all that effort and expense only to come away with, what seems to me like a half baked product.

As far as i'm aware, with the exception of bbc manchester and leeds, (assuming leeds are still using IQ beats), most if not all of the packages used on bbc locals are produced and commissioned by a station sound team in London, so i'm wondering why they feel some stations require vocal idents and others don't.

For us jingle enthusiasts we can all spot a “BBC Radio Derby” logo or whatever it maybe a mile off, and not wanting to insult your average listeners intelligence here, but i'm guessing they wont make the connection and will see it as a “short little ditty” that they play out of the news or travel etc. If that's the case then the idents are only doing half the job they should be doing.

[RobinBlamires]

Interesting thoughts, although I'm guessing the term “deejay” relates to the radio disk jockey as opposed to the club DJ who just uses the two initials.

It brings to mind the Paddy Roberts song “The Big Deejay” which happened to be written at a time when they were only coming into place around the early 1960s.

Although from my point of view the best broadcasters such as Winton, Edmonds and Wogan started off in radio before moving into television where they became more famous and with all due respect, television happens to be one of the main reasons I got into this radio and jingle obsession.

But the comments on Selector etc are spot on and to have them as “dictators” is a bit much.

[MarkajPaxton]

Why is it that whenever i see the word “deejay” i instantly think of east anglian productions. I wonder if there jingles would have improved if they were still in business.

Sorry, just thinking out loud there.

[martinlesterMember]

Wixy1360 wrote:
PS – as per Len's comment on “theme” jingles…

Apparently the “jock” no longer selects his jingles on many stations – the Selector software or
whatever can be programmed to decide for itself which jingle to play from a “jingle playlist”?

I think the same can be said of Len's ex Station Smooth?

I remember listening on the 1st week of broadcasting to “Tony Maytt” ex Capital Presenter it was 1am and following the news a Heavy Rock Type Jingle Blasted out of the speaker to be followed by Frank Sinatra All the way !

I have no idea if they have improved over the last few years, as the 1st week of broadcasting was the 1st and only time I have listened to the station along with the dreadful Bespoke Jingles

[IainJohnstonMember]

“i instantly think of east anglian productions”

If it wasn't for EAP I would never have had my 2 Ferrographs (and the reel-to-reel
collections of several “not so young” JM'ers would never have been quite the same!) :^)

[Admin]

Wixy1360 wrote: Apparently the “jock” no longer selects his jingles on many stations – the Selector software or
whatever can be programmed to decide for itself which jingle to play from a “jingle playlist”?

At Channel 4, the majority of our sweepers are scheduled while the sung idents are manually inserted by the jocks. Each cut is labelled with a tempo so the jock knows what type of jingle to insert deepnding on the two songs either side of it.

As this is a Wise Buddah thread, I better comment so that we don't stray too far off topic. So um, WB. Not a big fan.

[martinlesterMember]

Wixy1360 wrote:
“i instantly think of east anglian productions”

If it wasn't for EAP I would never have had my 2 Ferrographs (and the reel-to-reel
collections of several “not so young” JM'ers would never have been quite the same!) :^)

Who Know's they Might have used the same Singers on the orignal Smooth Jingles

They were That Bad !

[mbMember]

I actually like WB jingles. The new BRMB set are one of the best new packagesd I've heard and much better vocally than IQ Beats or Bespoke. Not keen on some but then there are some JAM / TM / Reelworld jinglds I don't like either.
Its nice to have a site back up with individual cuts and there are pleant of nice ones one there.
The hotcore FM jingles are very very funny

[LenGroat]

Thanks for the flurry of posts fellow JingleMadders's!

Sometimes I think that having been in the VERY priveliged position of working in radio for 20 years, actually controlling the jingle sound of two stations (Metro and Trent) my thoughts/ comments are perhaps not always focussed quite the same a way as pure 'jingle collctors'. However, when we get this much reaction it's GOOD, as discussion certainly moves on a topic..

I particularly have to thank Iain (Wixy) as his whole comment:

To add my tuppence-worth, a “true” deejay should also at least be able to “work the desk”.. Brand, Ross etc apparently stand in the middle of a room under a slung-mike (and pose/posture).. on late-night Radio 2 “show”, someone Lamar(?) mumbles & monotone lip-speaks close into his mike with total lack of presence or larynx definition (as does Dermot O'Leary – and thats not simply his Irish accent!) … Ultimately, the jingles themselves are “tools of the trade” and the “DJ cut” is effectively their “Business Card”…… Using these “tools” badly is as effective as a joiner using a fret-saw to hammer-in a screw!

Deserves repeating…. as it shows a great understanding of the problems.

As early as 1978 the (short lived tv background) Radio Trent Programme Controller Bev Smith, put a tv 'pal' from Birmingham on air on a Sunday show. This (un-named) 'presenter' declined the training I offered ,saying it was easy to be a deejay. The result? The show was full of ______ gaps _____ embarrasing links ___ and..

… he never made it to week two!

Martin's observation 'Apparently the “jock” no longer selects his jingles on many stations'

IS basically also true. Selector CAN do it but when I was on Saga in 2004 the PC was embarassed when I asked about this, as he just 'had not had time to do it', and never did! And at sMoOtH, I had to go through the process on nearly every break of removing the jingle scheduled and picking one matching the tempo of the NEXT piece of music…

NEXT is of course the ONLY button you press to play the audio now, and apart from adjusting the 2 audio faders, and your mic, THAT IS IT…. Yet another reason radio is dull and dying.. it's NO challenge for the broadcaster.

[Barras]

I remember when I was on-air at Sun FM (1997ish) we could playout the jingle manually and what a thrill it was to do that………as it was Breakthrough by JAM !

Barras

[MartinS]

Inferno wrote:
Wise Buddah have now updated their website at last and it looks good with plenty of demos.

http://www.wisebuddah.com/

Thanks for the update. Great to see the BRMB 2008 re-sings can now be accessed cut by cut!

[Nige]

The trouble with the BBC is that they work on the format of plucking TV bods and plonking 'em into radio. Simply because they are recognisable (although not to everyone here…….LOL).

Re: Lulu…..I would expect a singer to be able to project their voice on the radio and would even expect the same from others in TV because they project their personality on screen……but maybe some of them just don't get it right.
Isn't that then also the fault of their producer or the PC who should direct them?

It could be worse with an actor because so many of them have no personality of their own, they need to be something else in order to come alive.

Maybe it's laziness or lack of training coming through the Beeb……university bods getting top jobs but not having any real ability to bring out the best in their jocks.

[barrydavidallanbda]

Len .. I love this……..
one definition of a deejay would be someone able to use jingles well, with music, to paint pictures/ create a programme/ station sound. But if you don't give your deejays proper jingles, but 'themes', they cannot do that ~

The number of stations i have worked for and the Pd is lost with “Dj's jingles and music”….. All they think about is get the adbreak out on time… You can see how todays radio is not about entertaining the listeners .

And Yes I have removed a “fast jingles” out of adbreaks that mix into a slow intro song on the playout system …

[coolnt]

Wise Buddah, I should say, is among the most respected jingle companies in the world. I mean, why else would BBC, BRMB, Capital, Virgin Radio and other big brands would they go to this company, if not for the quality.

One of their biggest achievements so far is the Contemporary Jingles package, which has been resung a handful of times.

[Inferno]

coolnt wrote:
Wise Buddah, I should say, is among the most respected jingle companies in the world. I mean, why else would BBC, BRMB, Capital, Virgin Radio and other big brands would they go to this company, if not for the quality.

One of their biggest achievements so far is the Contemporary Jingles package, which has been resung a handful of times.

This is the beauty of Jinglemad. You get to hear different perspectives. Mine is Wise Buddah is a good jingle company as is JAM, TM Studios, Bespoke, S2Blue, Reelworld, IQ Beats, Top Format, Temple of Tune, etc. All of them have something different to offer and have a different perspective on making jingles which is the point. If all of them sounded like JAM, TM , IQ Beats, etc, radio and jingle collecting would sound boring. In honesty, I don't like everything these companies produce but most of their work is good stuff and you can't beat hearing a great jingle which makes your hair stand up and goosebumps stand out (I need to get out more!).

[IainJohnstonMember]

I've heard it suggested that many UK stations go to Wise Buddah because their “radio pal” of
many years owns the company???

(Thats not a criticism by the way, as many people used Alfasound for a similar reason – a jock
/ex-jock who understood what was needed from the DJ's side of the control room window!)

[Author]

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