[LenGroat]

Further to a point made by Barry in a recent topic, here's a qestion for you (and anyone or everyone!)

Exactly WHEN did the word 'sweepers' appear in British Radio?

I 'jumped ship' in April 1994 as I saw the 'storm coming', and when I joined this site 3 years ago, 'sweepers' was an alien word to me (in 2 senses of the word!)

I understand that it's 'better in the boardroom' to talk about paying 500 for 'sweeper's than 12k for a jingle package (that's a 1992 price!), but I really do not believe 'sweeper's work, particularly on stations aiming at 'grown ups' !

Has anyone seen any research to show they are memorable? Personally I cannot listen to a station that uses them, the irritant factor is very high.

So, WHO, or WHICH station first used 'sweepers'?

Secondly, does the recent rush back to 'sung pieces of music' by many stations (I cannot call them 'jingles') mean that people are realising at long last that they do not work…

are sweepers are being swept away ?

[MartinS]

Len, I wholeheartedly agree with you about sweepers and the 'irrintant' factor. There's nothing wrong with using well produced sweepers to supplement a decent jingle package. All jingles might be a bit too much? For example, take Key 103 Manchester (UK) in the stage from 1994-97 – they had a really good balance of sung Jingles (JAM Energy & In the Mix/Energy 2) and well produced sweepers (with effects) featuring the lengendary Brian James.

One thing I will say, is that I can remember many Jingles from the 80s and 90s. I can't remember too many “sweepers” (or whatever they were called at the time) though! I'm sure the same goes for many people, proving that the melodic properties of well produced jingles give them an outright defeat over monotone sweepers, when it comes to listener recall.

Due to a strapline change, many of the jingles on one of my local stations have recently become reduntant and we're getting to that dreaded stage where fairly dry sweepers form the majority of the imaging content outside of the Breakfast show. To be honest I find the bland voice they are using more annoying and than the automated announcer voice at the local mainline rail station!

I'd be interested to understand why what you refer to as “sung pieces of music” can't be classed as jingles. I admit that the production quality of many contemporary packages varies enourmously from one producer to another and from one group of stations to another depending on their attitude towards sung jingles. I only really take an interest these days in the imaging of local and regional stations in the UK – however I could come up with some top class packages from the last 5 years.

It's interesting to see that some producers. e.g. JAM/JonesTM/Reelword are not afraid to use the word 'jingles' in the 21st century, albeit to varying degrees. I personally find the production quality and intensity of the jingles from these companies much more crafted than from those which may shy away from the word and…. let's just add a few vocals to generic music beds, erm maybe I do know where you're coming from after all Len?

Martin S

[JingleMadMember]

Sweepers can work if its the right voice… Sung jingles are not the best tool between songs

[LenGroat]

Martin : I'd be interested to understand why what you refer to as “sung pieces of music” can't be classed as jingles. I admit that the production quality of many contemporary packages varies enourmously from one producer to another and from one group of stations to another depending on their attitude towards sung jingles.

Okay few ideas and definitions ~ just my thoughts, other opinions very welcome:

“sung pieces of music” ~ the track is usually based on instantly recognisable riffs or songs, and played as if by a 'band', a group of individual instruments, no cohesiveness to form a total sound Sung solo or duet in pop record casual style, so lacking in clarity. Vocals usually end before a musical or echo trail out. No production fx. OVERALL ~ as it sounds like a record it WEARS OUT more quickly on the listener.

“jingles” ~ usually based on a musical style, not a particular song, or if based on one song far removed from the original. Played tightly with multi layers that may take a while to hear ~ the affect is that the track 'wears out' more slowly. Sung with a 4 5 or 6 piece vocal group, rarely with any one voice sticking out in the mix. Vocals end on a big chord or block. 'Attention getting' intros/middle sections created with fx, or wind instrument punctuation. OVERALL as it has a smoother, tighter sound, and stronger harmony/melody it is more memorable and less wearing.

It's interesting to see that some producers. e.g. JAM/JonesTM/Reelword are not afraid to use the word 'jingles' in the 21st century… I personally find the production quality and intensity of the jingles from these companies much more crafted than from those which may shy away from the word and…. let's just add a few vocals to generic music beds, erm maybe I do know where you're coming from after all Len?

You talked youself into it Martin!

[GrahamCollins]

I remember sweepers first being used by Capital Radio in 1987 with the launch of their TM package that year. The words 'turning up the power' over some SFX were included on the CD. There were two or three others and they got a lot of use by the jocks. I liked them because they were different and has been said above when used TOGETHER with the jingle package gave another tool for the talent to use.

With regard to jingles in general – my stand point is that 8 themes cut into 150 different mixes does not constitute a jingle package – they all end up sounding the same – I'm generalising but you get the idea.

My favourite jingle packages tend to be composites, cherry picked from various custom projects where the sounds are deliberately different to be able to change the mood as required.

[IainJohnstonMember]

Chalks said…”my stand point is that 8 themes cut into 150 different mixes does not constitute a jingle package – they all end up sounding the same“.

Nail hit precisely on the head there Graham!

As I've said before, this idea of chopping up a
small number of long jingles into a lot of
bit-versions has been tried before, and doesn't
work well on-air (even if its now digital editing
instead if splicing tape and razor blades!).

How many of the “mixes” ever get used beyond
the first few weeks, or even days?

Probably the only package to ever “get away with it”
was TM's “You”?

[MartinS]

Len – thanks for your explaination above about what consitutes a jingle. You've certainly described some of the qualities of many jingles there. Many I would agree with and dome I would disagree with. Although I recognise that have a lot more 'jingle experience' than me, having commisioned packages and the like over many years. My interest in jingles covers less of a time span, so I imagine “proper” jingles as being those I first heard and knew. Perhaps the same goes for a lot of people… it all depends what jingles were around when the spark of interest took hold and that goes to shape what constitues a jingle for an individaul. I think we could start a whole new topic on “What is a jingle” so I'll park it there for a while to avoid going too far off topic.

It's interesting to hear the points, partiucularly from Graham and Wixy, on “themes cut up to make several different jingles” debate. I don't particular have one view or the other, however if that's what stations are wanting then is there really any problem with it? Is it really what they want though, or is it lack of imagination and/ or station imaging experience by the folks actually commisioning the packages?

The package Reelworld produced at the end of 2005 for Key 103 Manchester is this kind of a package. Jingles were delivered as shotguns, stings (without vocal), regular slogan jingles and ramp bed jingles and clear beds. Although the package is now heading for retirement I would argue that various mixes and elements were used more and more as time went on, rather than the other way round. Only slogan jingles were used to begin with, then ramps started to get used, then the use of shotguns crept in slightly later. Additionally, once the listeners had got used to the jingles and 5 note logo, Key 103 began using the longer clear beds as talkovers, sometimes looped. Whatsmore, many jingles or 'themes' were delivered with an alternate slogon, either for morning show, weekend or top ten at ten. To me it would be wasteful to have a jingle exclusively for these features which wasn't available also with the regular station slogan.

As much as I love the JAM Hot AC / CHR packages from the late 1980s and early 1990s (beginig of my jingle interest) I often found myself thinking that it would be nice to hear a ramp bed version of some of the shorter jingles. I would like the begining, end and effects and ofter wonder how it could sound if extended into something that could be used for talk up. Indeed, I remember a post a while back where Jon W explained how a Hot Kiss or Fresh kiss cut had been extended to form a bed before the end sing. Similarly, I've always the way the JAM Z Force cut 13 is used in an extended way at the start of the demo – it's great that the same jingle can be used as shorter slogan jingle or as a talk up or promo bed.

In relation to this point, how many presenters have taken a regular slogan jingle and used it without the slogan vocal as a mini talk up ramp? I seem to remember this a lot in the 1990s and thought that it was a really creative way of getting the most from a jingle package. Some Radio Aire FM presenters certainly used to do this with JAM the The Beat package, talking over the section where “Yorkshire's Best Music Mix” would normally be sung.

Sorry using the jingle thing as bit of an escapism method in the middle of a stressful house move!

[JingleMadMember]

I think its good when a station buys a sung package and they hold cuts back to use 6 months down the line.. keeps the station sound fresh

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