[scotronMember]

Managed to catch the new Smooth into News Jingle today and a couple a music sweeps with v/o’s . Sounded very Classic FM what I heard. Orchestral and maybe a little bit bland.

[IanF]

A refreshing change for a station these days to use that kind of imaging. Normally it’s playlist sound-a-like jingles with “Oooo’s”, “Arrr’s” and “Yeah yeahs”. Can’t make my mind up who’s done them though

[professor1036]

I’m guessing they could be either TM Studios or David Arnold Music…

[radiofan]

Smooth had a great sung jingle package which has now been replaced by more boring instrumentals and voice overs and regional variations, in the north east sadly made up of x Magic and Metro presenters, a great pity as Smooth was really good until Monday this week.

[ratnobMember]

So we don’t think they’re by Ignite Jingles?

[LenGroat]

My thoughts on this are that Smooth has NEVER got it right. I was asked to do a show on the (re-named Saga) East Midlands Smooth in 2007 and the Bespoke package was very small, featured limited vocals, and did not ‘work’ into music. So I bought 4 custom JAM cuts for my show.. but was told not to use them (I did).

The more recent 2013 jingles were rarely used (not the jingle companies fault) except for very short ones that come out of 3-4 minute LONG breaks, and they do not ‘do’ anything – maybe they are not using the longer/better mixes?

Aesthetically/commercially any station which does 3-4 minute long breaks but only identifies itself for a few SECONDS is WRONG.

From 2007 to now all Smooth had to do was buy 20 cuts a year from ANY of the KOST packages by JAM = SIMPLE!

These would fit their new (slightly sugary) format, and are melodic and memorable. A KOST cut into any Michael Buble song (that they repeat overandover) would work perfectly.

They have spent 7 years avoiding doing the ‘bleedin’ obvious’ and getting JAM….

[professor1036]

It’s certainly been a long road since the stations were rebranded from Jazz FM or Saga.

I agree that the jingles have been hit and miss over the years, but the last package by TM Studios have certainly been the better of Smooth’s idents through it’s various phases. I only wished that the TM vocals were on all the jingles, not just Smooth 70’s. But whether I like or previously liked the jingles is irrelevant…it appears that the custom imaging fitted what Smooth was doing at a particular time, which is what any programmer would want from its on-air branding. How they are used on-air is open to interpretation from the presenters who are using them, how frequently the jingles/imaging are freshened up, if and how they are scheduled, what senior management want at a particular time, networking issues and ultimately in the case of Smooth…new owners.

Len mentioned about long ad-breaks into short jingles. I’m old enough to remember when ILR stations came out of ad-breaks and went straight into a song or a long link without any identification whatsoever! In some hours…the only jingles you would hear was the news intro! Plus if we go back into the 1970’s some of the biggest radio stations in America would have a long ad-break into a shotgun jingle!

Drums and call-letters?

[professor1036]

Geoff:- I get the feeling that Chris Stevens has been involved with the new idents, whether it is via Ignite or TM Studios is another matter. Although I do think that the new idents retain some of the sound or ‘feel’ of the previous TM package. But this could have been achieved by using David Arnold Music as well, who seems to have been commissioned quite a lot lately by Global for its custom music.

[IainJohnston]

” I’m old enough to remember when ILR stations came out of ad-breaks and went straight into a song or a long link without any identification whatsoever!”

1) a certain big Scottish station in its earlier days often played the exact SAME “jingle” INTO an ad break then OUT of it again – and in some hours would ONLY use the single SAME one over and over; compounded by many of them being the “station mini-songs” provided by “artistes” of the era rather than the “proper” custom jingles they’d paid for.
Sounded dire on-air. And of course they repeated the (awkward, clumsy) news-ins coming out of the news too a la Radio One, but without the “finesse”. In the early 1990s though, their on-air style became very polished and great to listen to (and had a damn good JAM composite!)

2) I once listened to a short-lived station in Gwent (name obvious…) for nearly an hour and a half at peak evening “drivetime” (before UK stations called it that). The woman “presenting” seemed VERY ex-BBC local, talked endlessly and at length from a script, and included long meandering chunks of an interview with some old dear. There was not a single word given as to who/what the station was by name or frequencies; the news-in at 6pm didn’t even mention who they were. They went bust after just a few months on-air – utterly unsurprising. As the old PAMS 49a demo says – if you don’t identify your station within an 11-minute window, nobody will know who you are.

3) At the other extreme, I have (somewhere) a cassette aircheck of BRMB where the “jock” repeats “96 point 4 BRMB” (with a slogan I forget) every few seconds in a long link/promo to the most ridiculous level of stupidity.

And now back to whatever…

[professor1036]

Iain:- Some of the presenters at Radio Wyvern in the earlier years were quite happy to play as few jingles as possible and chose to finish ad-breaks by opening the mic up for another long link or go straight into another song. Another variation is playing the same two jingles over and over.

Not to single out Wyvern…some presenters at Severn Sound, BRMB and even Beacon used to do this in the mid-eighties.

Back to Smooth…listening to it a bit more and David Arnold?

[LenGroat]

When I heard the Bespoke jingles I felt like I had my hands ‘tied behind my back’, as if they wanted ‘me’ my style had always been based on flow between all the elements, voice-music-jingles. The Bespoke package was basically great ‘globs’ of sound that had been designed only to work out of breaks.

I’ll let the jingle ‘connoisseurs’ on here comment on whether the cut (below) was better – to me anything from KOST is bulls-eye for “a station such as Smooth” as you put it. I also heard some demo jingles made by TM for Smooth in 2007, which again were better than what they bought.

My point now is that Smooth’s new ‘style’ is even more in need of melodic harmonious jingles. My 2007 re-sing (using THEIR logo from that time) would still work today.

As regards, “the PD was totally correct telling you not to use them”, I’d make the point that given Smooth’s very chequered history and lowly position in the (all important) London market I’d say they have never ‘got it right’. Cohesive, well-sung jingles from JAM (or TM) might have helped greatly….

Thoughts?

Len Groat – Smooth Radio by Len Groat

[AndyWMember]

I listened to that jingle and my brain was singing 021 432 2000 – Midlands B-B-C.

[ratnobMember]

I’m guessing they could be either TM Studios or David Arnold Music…

Bravo – they are David Arnold.

[professor1036]

The more I hear Smooth’s imaging…the more it reminds me of Jazz FM’s pre-GMG days when they were first using David Arnold tracks.

Seems like we’ve now gone full circle…well in the North West and London at least.

[IainJohnston]

“…full circle…”

No doubt the Smooth material will eventually end up on the David Arnold site.
But in the meantime, for some very classy quality production in “cut-by-cut” mode…

1) Jazz FM
http://davidarnoldmusic.com/radio/

2) current Classsic FM

Classic FM: Award-Winning Radio Imaging

[LenGroat]

That was my (long-term) point – I tried to make convivial suggestions and was ignored…. However, we disagree on “the job of any presenter is to follow station guidelines based on the style guide everybody gets when first joining a station”

Doing ‘what you are told ‘ in radio is the wrong way for dj’s to go. Your career will be short or dull or both.

If you review the GREAT ‘jocks’ over the last 40 years they were not the ‘yes’ men (they are taken off-air quietly and replaced with ‘same model at cheaper price’, or made management puppets). From Edmonds to Wogan, Winton to Ross, Evans to Wright, Tarrant to Fluff, they break most of the rules, which is WHY they get noticed! Look at Wright’s custom jingles on Radio 1 and now 2 – he certainly does not follow “follow station guidelines”?

THIS is WHY Smooth wil never succeed as the latest re-vamp (Smooth Mark IV ) is just more of the same as before – but with even less experienced presenters.

“One can only imagine what may have happened if the Breakfast guy preferred ReelWorld”

Think of Steve Wright!

“Len, I’m not picking a fight here”. Neither am I it’s a healthy discourse and far better to talk about USE of jingles on-air than just exchange ‘I like’ and ‘I don’t like ‘ discussions.

“jocks are no longer bigger than the station they work on”

Errr, Steve Wright, multi-millionaire Chris Evans, are on THE most successful station.

I think where we differ is that radio to me is an ‘art’, to you a ‘discipline’. Just playing (poor) station jingles and saying nothing, is not an option for me….

[gameswizardMember]

but was told not to use them (I did).

I’m curious as to what you’re boss’s reaction was when you used them.
Also, did you stay at the station long and continue using them whilst there?

[LenGroat]

Games Wizzard: “I’m curious as to what you’re boss’s reaction was when you used them. Also, did you stay at the station long and continue using them whilst there?”

A little complex but they had a local ‘boss’ who loved the jingles, a ‘big boss’ (who I never even met) was non-committal, and delegated to a ‘medium-size’ boss to ‘sort’ it. I continued to use the jingles for all except 2 weeks and left after 5 months as I was moving to Portugal.

Few companies, tiny playlists, too many daft rules! And isn’t that why so many people on here lament the passing of ‘proper’ jingles?

[gameswizardMember]

they had a local ‘boss’ who loved the jingles, a ‘big boss’ (who I never even met) was non-committal, and delegated to a ‘medium-size’ boss to ‘sort’ it. I continued to use the jingles for all except 2 weeks and left after 5 months as I was moving to Portugal.

So with all the stations rules to you were supposed to abide by, it looks like there was room for some DJ initiative too. Nice one. I’m glad it worked out for you >

[LenGroat]

Thank you Gameswizard: I know some people think I have ‘strong’ opinions, or even ‘a hint of arrogance’ but I think radio presentation is an ‘art’. Doing less than your very best on your radio show is like an author releasing a poorly-written book…

…..and if your show does not ‘work’ it’s YOU that is held accountable, not the Programme Controller….

I am grateful we recently got into discussing HOW we use jingles on this topic and others. Sadly the ‘art’ of making/using transition jingles, F to S, S to F, matching tempo, etc,. is almost lost by current ‘jingle fashion’.

[mbMember]

I think Chris Reay mentioned on one of the podcasts about Radio 2 that Ken Bruce is very particular about tempo matching jingles to music and making jingles work on air, and Steve Wright has very strong opinions about jingles and their usage and sound.

[scotronMemberAuthor]

This thread has developed somewhat since my initial comment on the new Smooth format. I have now heard more of their ‘on air ‘ sound and am sorry, but I find it boring and lack lustre. I still find it very much ‘Classic Fm’ in feel and does not match the music they are playing. Also, the music playlist is far too tight. I agree with Len. The ‘art’ of being a DJ is sadly lacking in todays market of tv presenters and personalities. Most probably don’t drive the desk. You have to be in control, pushing those faders, mixing the sound, rather than hand cueing the engineer across from you.

[JohnnyJingle]

You can’t knock the new jingles, if you really listen to them through the presenter drivel they’re really nice.

They just don’t match the station output of bland, Groundhog Day music and robojock waffle. No fault of the composer.

Put them to the Smooth Selection originally aired on 102.2 Smooth FM between 8 and midnight and they’d work perfectly.

[star tetley]

You can’t knock the new jingles, if you really listen to them through the presenter drivel they’re really nice.

They just don’t match the station output of bland, Groundhog Day music and robojock waffle. No fault of the composer.

Put them to the Smooth Selection originally aired on 102.2 Smooth FM between 8 and midnight and they’d work perfectly.

I thought the jingle company normally worked with the station to get a suitable sound.

[scotronMemberAuthor]

I am sure the quality and production values of the ‘jingles’ (music sounders) are first class, but I agree with Jonnny above, they don’t really match the output and do not seque well into the music tracks. And the female v/o is just a bit too sugary sweet, nicey nicey for my taste. Plus, I am sure there is a very noticable musical likeness in the news intro in a five note sequence to a certain Michael Jackson track.

[Author]

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