[LenGroat]

Okay – I kept an open mind and just LISTENED to KDWB. For a supposed 'heritage' station it's not very impressive.

The breakast dj (with the cliched yappy man and woman talking around him) spoke for TEN minutes, and then for a further FIVE minutes did a 'Smoker's Cough' pre-recorded phone-in.

There were SIX VOICE 'KDWB drop ins' during this, but not even one SUNG JINGLE.

And NO MUSIC!

The next show was (syndicated not local) Ryan Seacrest, which goes out over 100s of US station. There was no jingle/ ident on the hour before that started, with Jay Sean and then Justin Timberlake – male vocals.

I finally heard a 5 second KDWB jingle at 15 minutes past the hour – dropped in between 2 songs, as it would be on the 100s of other stations. Hardly local or individual?

20-25 minutes is an average listening span for an American listener, so the listeners hardly HEAR these jingles we've been 'debating'.

I rest my case…

Len

[nostalgie]

I am speechless here… I am stunned to note how much divergence we have.

I am also sad to see that some members don't write on a regular basis only because they feel threatened by others or their opinions. Please, wherever you are (US or UK…) just be yourself,
express your ideas and share your feelings. The point is not to decide who is right or wrong,
but to share about a topic that should unites all of us.

[WalterEego]

Very well put I think

[simon_t123Member]

Having a listen to these cuts there kinda cool in their own way (do they do personal cuts lols !!!) definately a modern sounding imaging product anyway, certainly a female lead on the vocal mix for KDWB but I'm sure the company would accomodate the needs of the client I was considering peering over “the edge” and taking on a modern sounding package from Studio Dragonfly (TM Studios) a package called “FUEL” … There we have edgy sounding tracks, quite gritty with on the demo quite gritty female solo vocals … But the terms gritty, edgy or modern are not detrimental to that package, indeed that whole package is for sale at about £800, TM said they could be flexible on the vocals, I could have 7 voice if I wanted … I decided not to go down the FUEL route as it didn't suit the spectrum of music played on non-stop:VIBE where the proportion of disco orientated 70's 80's & 90's tracks dropped in to maintain a feelgood mix won't run well with the modern jingles we're discussing in this thread …

The ONLY reason I'd not use them however is that they are not well suiting my intended use & thats the basis of my opinion on this whole thread, the KDWB cuts are very credible, TM's edgy sounding “FUEL” package is credible, the current Heart ID's in the UK are a personal favourite, it's all about intended use … A JAM cut will make my spine tingle for sure & they are great in fields they suit best, their recent work is great, I'm a lover of jingles my ears are open to ALL

It's all surely about intended use guys ??? The right jingles for the right stations …

[applejack]

Hey Len….that's awesome that you took the time to listen to KDWB. I respect that totally! You're right about your comments of the content of the morning show. Most mornings shows tend to have lots of talk, pranks, phone-ins, etc…they sometimes try real hard at being funny and they are NOT. It bugs me personally when a jock tries to be a stand up comedian…especially when his jokes are mediocre at best. I would recommend listening to KDWB later in the evening. You will find that they play a lot more music plus they will rotate jingles a bit more. Keep in mind also that KDWB is a Clear Channel station where they have a “less is more” approach to imaging. So you won't hear tons of jingles ALL the time. There are some hours where they will spin 3 jingles during the hour. But that's probably the most they do. It's a corporate mentality that has indoctrinated the PD's of Clear Channel (“less is more”…that is).

Again….I think it's cool you checked it out. Give it another go sometime in the evening whenever you have some free time.

Applejack-

[LenGroat]

Hi AJ !

I ventured back….. and on the afternoon show… they just played an Ultra fast jingle into 'Never say never' by Fray, which has a solo piano SLOW into, and a funereal mood – it CLASHED completely!

Looks like no one at the station has heard of matching jingle tempo to song intros ?

Oh, hang on, ALL the jingles in the package are fast and end on an UP note

Why oh WHY has American radio so quickly forgotten what it originated and did so very well for 20 years?

Best wishes from this 'old fogey'

Len

[Paul]

Len, you're going a bit off topic here. M-Edge have no say how KDWB use the jingles on air.

Tony must be doing something right if Rob Morris keeps coming back to him year after year. Sure, the N2Effect/M-Edge jingle packages sound similar but it allows KDWB to stay 'fresh' without making any major changes regarding their imaging. It seems to work for them?

[GlennaMember]

Its starting to sound like American politics around here.
If you like M-Edge or RW thats fine.
But don't say that some of us are narrow minded just because we do not a certain package or company that produced it.
We ALL have our favorites.
SO can we please move on to something else?

[MidwestP]

To KCmike, applejack, Paul and Radio.Jingles

*MAJOR claps claps claps*

Totally dead on post. You guys have restored my likeness for M-Edge/RW/current CHR jingles. Thank you! and this is coming from a person in the US!

(surprised Codymerryman posted in this yet. After these last few posts, I see his posts in a new light.)

No, I do not think KDWB 2009 rocks per say, nor I did I pee in my pants after hearing those jingles, but I do think KDWB 2009 is bright, upbeat and fits the format well. It sounds like very nice. I also like the KUDD package as well. Tony Valdez, keep up the great work with your new M-Edge!

[nostalgie]

… and the last words could be: “It takes all kinds of food to please all kinds of people.”

[JingleMadMember]

LenGroat wrote:
The breakast dj (with the cliched yappy man and woman talking around him) spoke for TEN minutes, and then for a further FIVE minutes did a 'Smoker's Cough' pre-recorded phone-in.

There were SIX VOICE 'KDWB drop ins' during this, but not even one SUNG JINGLE.

And NO MUSIC!

Dave Ryan has been doing Mornings at KDWB since 1993 and pulls in the numbers. The majority of CHR Morning Shows are speech heavy in the major markets. You will find the same with Elvis Duran at Z100, Ryan Seacrest at KIIS and DreX at Kiss Chicago. You also get speech heavy content with Chris Moyles at BBC Radio 1.

applejack wrote: Keep in mind also that KDWB is a Clear Channel station where they have a “less is more” approach to imaging. So you won't hear tons of jingles ALL the time.

Clear Channel have been doing cold segues for a couple months. A lot of their stations will often play 3 songs with no imaging or sung idents in between. I am not a fan of this but I understand why they do it.

[gavanbruderer]

The problem with this thread is that there are too many people that aren't discussing the package that is at hand. This isn't an argument about which company is bigger or better. When the thread was first posted, The only thing there was was an announcement that M-Edge has a new package and a link.

It is sad that this has turned into such a bashing topic. M-Edge is VERY popular in the United States. How do I know? I LIVE HERE! In fact, I live in the Target Listening Area of Mix 107.9, the station that piloted the new package with the Kiss 108 FM logo.

These jingles have vocals that match every song on the Top 40 US Charts, and the music is perfect for the format.

Lets face it, JAM WILL NEVER BE HEARD ON Z100, or any other large Top 40 in the USA ever again, unless Jon decides to buy some new synthesizers.

The Reelworld and M-Edge sound IS CHR RADIO, unlike whatever the BBC is using this week…

[LenGroat]

Paul – Jingle News

'Len, you're going a bit off topic here. M-Edge have no say how KDWB use the jingles on air'

Paul if you re-read my words YOU missed the point and I AM on topic. They use very UP jingles into the SLOWEST song intros. They do this as the package has NO slow end jingles!

And surely a jingle 'package' that does not MATCH the station's music range, in style AND tempo, is NOT a well constructed package? The station DOES have control over that. Or, more likely the (well thought of) PD has less say in the package than someone 'higher up' at Clear Channel? In my day the PD and the breakfast presenters (I had 4) worked together over the breakfast show cuts so they were melodic, fun and useable.

My other point is that the KDWB breakfast show has far more talk (yap) than music, so ALL the package is out of place there, and in fact is HARDLY used. The station sound is (to use a wonderful Americanism) dysfunctional.

Len

[JingleMadMember]

My turn here.

I think Len is correct guys.

KDWB 2009 is a good package, to bad the up tempo cuts don't fit slow songs on their playlist. Why? I heard the station last night after the weather. one fast jingle went into “Sorry” by The Jonas Brothers.

It's a good thing that WHTS uses RW One instead of this package but I like this package as well.

Now, Whare are the cuts? I want to hear the package my self before making a choice.

[JingleMadMember]

LenGroat wrote: Paul if you re-read my words YOU missed the point and I AM on topic. They use very UP jingles into the SLOWEST song intros. They do this as the package has NO slow end jingles!

But Len that is of no fault of M-Edge. You are veering off course by criticizing how KDWB use their jingles. We are discussing the package not KDWB as a station.

Ok, Rob Morris went to Tony Valdez with a brief and a vision for KDWB's next jingle package. You know as well as I do that the client gets the final say on how the jingles should sound. He's paying the money so it's his call. Whether the jingles end on a high or low is down to the customer.

Once the ideas has been approved and the rough cuts have been put together, it is the PD's job to either approve the cuts or request the company to start over before the final mixes.

How KDWB use the completed package is of no concern to M-Edge. If I went to Jam with an idea for a custom package the process remains the same. Johnathan Wolfert will *advise* me on lyric content, melodies etc etc but really it's down to me the paying customer. If I want a package with an all female vocal group ending on high notes then that is my request.

If I have hired a team to build me a brand new house from scratch I will tell the construction team what it is I am looking for. Plans will be approved by me (the customer) before a single brick is layed. The construction company don't tell me how to live in my new house! They have done their job as per my requests. Its exactly the same with a custom package. I really shouldn't have to be explaining this!

[nostalgie]

Good point Michael. I think we just forget this sometimes, hoping that the owner would have a different taste for his house in the neighbourhood…

[coolnt]

“… so the listeners hardly HEAR these jingles we've been 'debating'. ” – Len Groat

We don't debate on jingles. We should not be.

“I am also sad to see that some members don't write on a regular basis only because they feel threatened by others or their opinions.” — Thierry

I agree thierry.

This is usually where uncalled debates start.

=============================

“Tony must be doing something right if Rob Morris keeps coming back to him year after year. Sure, the N2Effect/M-Edge jingle packages sound similar but it allows KDWB to stay 'fresh' without making any major changes regarding their imaging. It seems to work for them?”

AMEN TO THAT Paul!

5 Packages straight in a row? Come on.

I acknowledge that there are some people here who are more technical and so they hear things that ordinary listeners don't hear. I appreciate their keen observance. Really.

But I'm speaking here wearing the heart and passion of a producer and a program director, and that passion is is … to create and bring out the best sound for my station.

Nothing wrong with that?! Why do we question them? Do we question how Da Vinci paints his paintings? Do we question how these great painters paint such objects? NO, of course! Not!

Just trying to be on topic here but listen I'm tired of people saying “I don't like this package, shu shu shu and sha sha. “

Again, if we have nothing good to say, then let's keep it to ourselves. If you feel like an expert, you can always try to create your own package and let the whole world know “this is how it should be done”. Okay?

KDWB is the best!

My favorite KD package by Tony is so far KDWB 2003. What's yours?

[LenGroat]

Ref Michael 1984

'But Len that is of no fault of M-Edge. You are veering off course by criticizing how KDWB use their jingles. We are discussing the package not KDWB as a station'

WHO SAYS 'we are discussing the package' and 'not KDWB as a Station' ? !

The ONLY place that can USE the 'KDWB package' is KDWB, and jingles are (or have you forgotten) designed to be USED!

YOUR suggestion is clearly that we (Jingle Madders) only sit and listen to jingles out of context, and not the jingles ON AIR on the station they were made for!

The ONLY way you CAN appreciate/debate jingles is if you listen to them/ if they WORK, on air, or in this case, if they do not work. The station that ordered them IS responsible for using them, so it's perfectly 'fair game' for a discussion.

However, it seems under your scenario you only want to allow discussion of the demos??? That is like buying a car but not being able to DRIVE it!

Len Groat (sreechy female vocals over synth drums with LOTS of echo..)

[coolnt]

Xtreme KDWB 2003, like this , my favorite.

http://jinglemad.com/e107_files/public/1253122204_542_FT75265_xtremekdwb2003.mp3 filename:xtremekdwb2003.mp3

[nostalgie]

Some comments are very interesting here. Nevertheless, I hope that we don't need
to be jingle producers to give our comments about jingles.

Do we need to be a Chef to comment about food?

[GlennaMember]

I have no idea why a PD would screechy vocals on a country station.
But some do.
With tracks that aren't nearly country.

[GlennaMember]

Why should Jam buy more synthesisers?
Why should he have screechy vocals?
Not everybody are going to want those type of vocals.

[MidwestP]

Radio.Jingles wrote:
Xtreme KDWB 2003, like this , my favorite.

http://jinglemad.com/e107_files/public/1253122204_542_FT75265_xtremekdwb2003.mp3 filename:xtremekdwb2003.mp3

Remember this well, loved this package! thanks for posting.

[JingleMadMember]

Beaver205 wrote:
I have no idea why a PD would screechy vocals on a country station.
But some do.
With tracks that aren't nearly country.

That's mostly true Glen.

Program directors want Screechey vocals because they think they are better than Jam or TM.

Good point though. I'm not an expert yet but that's what I think.

[JingleMadMember]

Codymerryman@gm wrote: Good point though. I'm not an expert yet but that's what I think.

Last week you claimed to be KOST's consultant at the grand age of 16, LOL.
Anyways, this thread is dead now. Time to move on. Nice to see it went down the same route as the Jam/Reelworld KOST thread.

[Author]

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