[jkubiak]

I am excited to announce that M-Edge Productions has released KDWB 2009. I was very suprised to see it up when I went to their site today. Check it out!

http://www.m-edgeproductions.com/tracks-kdwb-2009.html

Enjoy!

[coolnt]

wow 2001 2003 2005 2008 and 2009, Tony's doing great on KD packages.

[LenGroat]

Unless this station plays only 'Kylie Minogue style' music I do not see HOW this can be called a 'jingle package'…

*ALL female vocals (screechy of course)

*ALL synthetic tracks

*Jingles called 'Shotguns' that are NOT Shotguns

FAR TO MUCH ECHO /REVERB

In other words, another example of the very Cliched 2009 style.

2 /10

It actually says on the demo site 'You will pee your pants' so clearly it is aimed at Programme Controllers who are still in nappies (diapers)

[jingle fan]

I have to agree with Len. All the jingles sound the same. Very OTT with the shrill female. Trouble is you can't beat Jam in my opinion as they have harmony and are not synthetic with good deep sounds, but in 2009 they are not “Cool” in todays programme contollers eyes.

[IainJohnstonMember]

It's all about “horses for courses“.

These will appeal to a certain kind of US client, where they will fit in perfectly with their programming. The other 99% of the potential audience will, as is becoming more prevalent in the UK, be dis-enfranchaised from hearing a style of radio presentation that they would listen to.

As for Len's review – well, the “shotguns” are at least short & simple, therefore probably DO qualify as such! The vocals however sound as if they're the vocal mix-outs lifted out from the tracks from any of the past 8-9 years' worth of existing Reelworld/M-Edge/etc etc for KDWB and simply dropped into these “new” tracks.

(PS – the Scottish word for “pee” is “pish” – a word also synonymous with the English phase “what a load of old tosh!”))
:^)

[coolnt]

Well, if diversity is not welcome in this forum, I guess Jinglemad.com is not worthy to be called “jingle community”!

But all comments are welcome.

I'm just surprised to see why we need to hit below the belt the contemporary packages, while noticeably that there are other young jingle fans here who embrace the diversity of the jingle industry.

Thanks to Jeremy K for posting this.

[teachercreature]

As a former jock, I believe these jingles are a reflection of current pablum (sp?) that young Americans call “music.” I know, I'm sounding more like my parents every day. The “pee” mention like the jingles themselves….no class.

[IainJohnstonMember]

“I'm just surprised to see why we need to hit below the belt the contemporary packages”

To me, its NOT that – its just like the music business in general – a “new sound” or style arises to supercede an existing “contemporary” one when that becomes increasingly “tired” or even “stale”. 50s Rock'n'roll gave way to 60s “beat”, which became “pop” and even 70s “progressive rock”; that got lost to “punk” and even 80s “disco”. Nowadays there is US “hip-hop”, rap, so-called “R'n'B” (which is nothing like true “Rhythm & Blues”), and so on.

All forms of music evolve with time (though usually separated by a brief interlude of “nostalgia” for a previous style, before the “industry” tries to find another “new direction” to make its money out of the paying public).

Jingles are no different, especially as they will to some extent mirror the commercial/retail/radio music market & audiences (and sadly, advertiser myopia) of the era involved.

The “Big Band” era of late-50s/early 60s jingles is long gone; once-hot 60's PAMS series fought-over for “first in the market to be able to grab it or have go to Pepper-Tanner instead” rights similarly; the fresh TM Productions' concepts of the early 70s are old-hat now; JAM has nowdays often been accused of being “dated”, yet is distinctively resilient in other ways; TM in various guises has repeatedly re-invented itself although with different owners; new jingle producers come & go, become a “fad” for a while, as they always have, and so on.

The style and (almost “identikit”) sound of this KDWB effort has likewise itself in turn become another “groundhog day” package of the “same old, same old” handle-turned writing & production – the idea that was genuinely once a “fresh & exciting” sound in the later 1990s is, as so many, many jingle styles & concepts in the past, now just as “tired” as a PAMS “barbershop quartet” on say Series 19 would have been after 1970 with the advent of TM Phase II or Drake Series #1.

“Contemporary” is something current but always moving with the times – the big question is “what comes next?” and which company(ies) will be there to create & develop the next “paradigm shift” in the jingle world?

(On that philosophical note, I'm off for a lunchtime sandwich and a cup of tea…!)
:^)

[kcmike]

Novell wrote:
Well, if diversity is not welcome in this forum, I guess Jinglemad.com is not worthy to be called “jingle community”!

Diversity has not been embraced by this forum for some time. It's probably the main reason there has been little participation by U.S. members. With the exception of postings from JingleNews.com, there is very been little discussion of late of current CHR jingle packages from Reelworld, Kissville, M-Edge or Top Format's new “Play” service. I think it's the voices of the haters that quash discussion of anything current. Sometimes I think this forum should be renamed JAMmad with the slogan: If it's not JAM, it's crap!

While I consider myself as big a JAM fan as any, to exclude or denigrate other companies, or any other formats besides AC or Oldies does little to promote or foster appreciation of current radio imaging, specifically sung radio jingles. A majority of the posting members have outgrown the demographic of CHR radio and do not understand the sound and flow of contemporary CHR radio, especially in the U.S.

That said, I think M-Edge's new KDWB 2009 package is bright and fresh and fits perfectly with the sound-image that Tony Valdez has crafted for KDWB for most of this decade. The only carryover I hear from other packages is the TOH logo sounder which sounds like the 2008 one. While others opine that N2Effect/M-Edge packages all sound the same, I feel it's the consistency of the Tony Valdez sound that makes package transitions seamless, especially with KDWB.

Bottom line, we're all entitled to our opinions, and it's OK to not like a particular package or company, but to wish every station to use 20 year-old JAM packages is a little silly.

Thanks Jeremiah for posting the link to the new package!

-Mike

[applejack]

Hey LenGroat here's something for you since you apparently don't have a problem being a “hater” to companies producing modern styles. I personally think you need to wrap a sock around your headphones so you can distinguish the finer details in this pkg my dear brother. You say it is ALL Female…you are sadly wrong. There is male in the mix however the female is mixed higher. I wonder if you've listened to any U.S. CHR stations recently…or today's hip-hop or “today's” (not 1970's) Pop sound? You might wanna give it a go. You will find that the jingles on the KDWB pkgs fit the music, vibe, etc. Everyone must keep in mind not what their personal jingle tastes are but rather what the target audience of the station is when listening to a new jingle package. CHR stations are aimed at younger audiences…audiences that would be characterized as cool, hip, young, etc…

I often read on this site jingle fans tearing down companies like RW/M-Edge/N2….etc. Come on guys! With all due respect to Jam…try playing their cuts in the middle of the songs at KDWB or z100 New York…or any CHR station for that matter. It would be comical.

For the record, I am a jingle lover AND a music lover. I have learned to appreciate music of all styles, cultures and eras. It is clear to see that music has changed soooooo much. 1920's Big Band Jazz, 50's, motown, Classic 60's, Disco, 80's Rock, 90's Pop and Dance and now today's Pop music…hip hop…etc.

Hey LenGoat….Listen to today's Pop music (especially Hip-Hop, Rap and most of the Dance Pop)…pay attention to the production of the music. Imagine the song without the vocals or rapping. You will find that there is not much there! I am a fan of horns, strings, organs….I am a fan of a big wall of sound but that would not work in a modern production.

I agree with the “below the belt” comment…come on guys. You complain about a line like “You're gonna Pee your pants” and then you don't have the “class” yourself to be a tad bit more eloquent in your critique. Shame on you jingle fans that must hate the production companies and producers that work so hard at feeding our addiction.

As a final comment I think Radio.Jingles has the right attitude…keep it up.

Oh and by the way….I personally think KDWB 2009 is perfect for KDWB. You guys might wanna listen online to find out for yourselves.

[JingleMadMember]

I think a few people here need to be brought into 2009.

Music styles change over the years and so do jingles. Kudos to KCMike and applejack as I totally agree with your comments.

When I saw the title of the thread, I knew it would be dissed by those living in the past. When was the last time any of you 'haters' actually listened to KDWB for any length of time? I would say hardly any of you.

Listen to what todays CHR stations are doing. The aren't playing the Alan parsons Project, Fleetwood Mac or Billy Joel anymore! These jingles (along with other companies like RW) are spot on and fit the sound of the station. They are modern, upbeat and contemporary just what stations like KDWB need.

I am not saying I am a JAM hater because I'm not. I love their work and I understand the reasons why everybody loves the product. however I look at the bigger picture from a professional point of view and not a collector. Why do you think Jam don't have many CHR clients these days? Can anybody name a MAJOR market CHR station using Jam?

Finally I agree with what KCMike says – We should rename the site JAMmad as its getting very boring now. Perhaps if this wasn't a Jam shrine the people that left the site might come back…..

[applejack]

Amen to Michael 1984's comments…well said! There is a section here on jinglemad called “CURRENT jingle scene”…maybe we should only allow current-minded jingle fans to post/comment on there.

I bet Tony Valdez and the guys at M-Edge Productions never thought they were gonna spark up this controversy. It's about time we talk about it…grrr

-Applejack (a current-minded jingle fan)

[GlennaMember]

Today's PD's are getting younger.
They see that Z100 uses “fingernails on the chalkboard” jingles and think that we should have that on their station.
My guess and {that all it is} that they don't venture out past eithier RW or M Edge.
When I worked in radio, {KRKT in Albany Oregon} we would ask for jingle demos from
ALL sources not just one or two.
And the other problem is {except for us}the public doesn't complain that often.
As long as the music keeps on flowing they really DO NOT care.

[ratnobMember]

This all seems a bit hysterical to me. I talked to Dave Foxx of Z100 the other day. He has great respect for JAM but feels that ReelWorld jingles work best on his station. Personally, I really like these cuts and recognise that they will work in some markets in some formats, just like the KOST cuts work elsewhere.

I think it's dead right that we need JingleMad to take a dispassionate and open-minded view of jingles old and new so that we don't become a kind of jingle mausoleum.

[IainJohnstonMember]

Applejack, KCmike, Michael 1984…

Gentlemen, would you all please just watch that your remarks don't start getting just a little bit too personal towards other JM members – after all, “its only jingles”.

Some US members should also note that not every country in the entire world has (or necessarily, wants) to have all its radio stations becoming clones of those in US urban markets – populations are different, ethnic groups are different, musical & cultural tastes are different, – e.g. the people of Poland shouldn't have to listen to Los Angeles Hip Hop just because a large minority of 12-18-year-olds in some US cities may think its the most important thing in their lives. And just because the terms AC, CHR, etc have been created by & apply to US radio, it doesn't mean that everyone has to force themselves into an American mould (or mold, in American English) of radio format/style or its production elements.

As for what Americans think of US radio – as a regular vistor to the New York Radio Message Board, I see EXACTLY what a lot of seasoned US radio people think of the decreasing AND NARROWING demographics of your once great industry have become, as the giant conglomerates converge their “product” on a smaller & smaller target audience (12-39, and ignore everyone else) simply to “feed” similarly “getting younger” advertising execs who now drive US radio into a barter-orientated hole in the ground while the conglomerates can't now even pay the interest on their massive borrowings that they used to buy-up other large chains of stations.

As I said above, the KDWB package is indeed perfect for KDWB – but the other 99.9% of the world's population don't have to have the radio equivalent of “eat nothing but McDonalds burgers & Coke” just because a minority of myopic Amercian PDs are incapable of realising that there is more than that “out there” than their own somewhat narrow, blinkered perception of the world.

[coolnt]

Hi KCMike,

Thanks for really opening this up. I am just worried about the direction JingleMad.com is now leading into. We always love JingleMad.com every since it started. Been here since 2003, and I am proud to be a part of it.

What is keeping this website healthy is that we always welcome different opinions.

I just feel so sorry that every time someone posts a topic on contemporary jingles, some people just burst as if such topics aren't welcome.

Like everyone else, there are jingles that I don't like too, be it old or new. But I try to see it, that if I have nothing good to say, then I'd better be quiet. But if I can't keep myself, I always try to be composed.

[applejack]

Wixy 1360…

I respect everything you said. However, if Applejack, KCmike and Michael 1984 are to be put in timeout because of our comments…I feel the other JM members that began the negative tones on this thread should also be brought to attention. This seems a bit 7th grade to me so I am out of this conversation! Nothing was meant to be personal when I commented about other JM members….I simply called them on their questionable comments.

I agree with Radio.Jingles “”such topics are'n welcome” meaning contemporary jingle topics.

Best to all! Peace.

[IainJohnstonMember]

Applejack – I haven't “put…anyone in timeout” – we don't do that on JM, nor have the power to do so. Read my words please.

But if one reads some of the “remarks”, they're heading that way … “haters” and other undue comments (e.g. “Len GOAT” is probably just a typo; but lets not get carried away).

But as I said – people outside of the USA don't always see the world as Americans do (the USA is a nation with a reputation for being the most parochial on the planet!) – our cultures such as popular contemporary music don't have to be dictated to by US teenage “urban” dwellers' tastes and US stations that cater to such tastes – I'm sure the listeners of Minneapolis/St Paul wouldn't like to have the jingles & “music” on their stations rammed down their throats in the style of Scottish “Hebridean Mouth Music”! It applies both ways…

[kcmike]

Well, Wixy, Since we urban, parochial, narrow and blinkered American CHR fans only make up .1% of the radio listening audience, I sincerely apologize for trying to “ram” anything down your collective European throats (though I don't really understand how I was doing that). I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone by simply pointing out how this site has changed from its inception.

I get it now. “International” really means “Intracontinental.”

Oh well, it is what it is. I'll shut up and go back to lurking and eagerly anticipate the next KOST thread.

As we urban Americans say in the 'hood: Peace out!

-Mike

[applejack]

Wixy…

I'm with kcmike…feeling a little singled out with the whole “American” thing. In my comments I never said anything against Europe or UK's radio fans or in any way intended to say that USA CHR dictates what Europe/UK radio should be like. We were discussing KDWB 2009 which is a USA CHR package. My comments were directed to the fact that that package is great for USA CHR and for KDWB in Minneapolis. I never said it was great for Scotland or France or anything else. If A European station would opt to image their station with something like KDWB imaging….well more power to them but I don't give my opinion in that department. Another issue I was standing for was that I was simply defending the production style of M-Edge's KDWB 2009 against Len's initial abruptly negative comments. (by the way…The Len thing was definitely a typo….never would want to go there to offend someone in that way.) I will ALWAYS stand up if someone is being nasty against someone or something that I personally like or am a fan of. It's my opinion vs the other guy's opinion.

Peace out from the hood!

Applejack-

[JingleMadMember]

Amyways let us not get carried away here. What started out as a post with good intention has turned into an international debate.

KDWB 2009 – If it works for todays CHR and the PD is happy whats the issue? Sure, some won't like it but really who cares? KDWB is a heritage station that always strives to be a market leader. The jingles and imaging play a part in that. Tony and the team at M-Edge will be proud to be on a station such as KDWB!

[teachercreature]

You wouldn’t try to repair a paint chip on a red automobile with green paint. Obviously, you would match the repair to the color of the original. To be effective, jingles, logically, have to closely match the character of the music with which they are integrated. So to the extent to which the KDWB package works with the music at it or similar stations, it’s a great match. My problem is with the medium that passes for music. As has been noted, music is a continuously evolving art form. Yes, the swing music of the forties is very different from the rhythm and blues of the early fifties and those musical entities different from the rock of the following decades. On the radio, these varied styles were complemented by a changing array of jingles we all love so much. I’m not a musicologist but reviewing Twentieth Century styles, there are certain melodic patterns that can be found throughout, that transcend the myriad of variations they were part of. There are common melodic threads in the note variations and chord progressions used by Bach, Beethoven, Benny Goodman, Billy Holiday and the Beatles. (How’s that for alliteration?) The current crop of “hot hits” and “rap” seems to have abandoned these time-tested melodic roots and, of course, the jingle industry is in lock step. So for those who opine that we critics are stuck in a musical rut so to speak, I plead guilty when we are talking about melody. To my untrained ear, it seems to be absent in much of contemporary music.

[mumoss]

I must admit, I'm fairly ignorant about today's radio in America – but I can say that the thing I'm not really hearing in today's jingles is something that sounds *great* with pop music in the UK today. I think that production groups like Xenomania are putting out good, interesting music – and I don't think many of today's jingle packages reflect that. (Mind you, I also love La Roux, which – depending on your taste – may mean you will wish to disregard anything I have to say on music entirely.)

The closest I've heard is a couple of the Brandy packages – but they're not *quite* there. (And I'm with Len when it comes to wanting variety in the lyrics.)

[LenGroat]

With reference to the comments of

KC Mike

‘Diversity has not been embraced by this forum for some time. It's probably the main reason there has been little participation by U.S. members. With the exception of postings from JingleNews.com, there is very been little discussion of late of current CHR jingle packages from Reelworld, Kissville, M-Edge or Top Format's new “Play” service’

I’m pleased my post actually got a few younger people to comment!

I believe there has been ‘little participation by U.S. members’ as there is little you CAN SAY about such jingles.

EVERY cut has the same few lyrics, in the same order, same tracks, same vocals – you cannot discuss the aesthetics of a package that has NONE. There is NO imagination or fun in this product, and radio is about IMGINATION and FUN!

At least my post made some of the Americans actually TYPE. As I’ve noted before there are many people READING these topics but few ANSWERING.

The general lack of interest in jingles like these is, I believe, because there is no deep rooted interest/ affection in the products of these companies as there is/was about PAMS JAM TM, etc.

Applejack

‘You say it is ALL Female…you are sadly wrong. There is male in the mix however the female is mixed higher’

I am NOT ‘sadly’ wrong, I sat through about 50 vocal sessions between 1978 and 1993 and cannot hear a male voice. Even if there is, a typical LISTENER would certainly say they are ‘all female’ singers.

WIXY

‘the KDWB package is indeed perfect for KDWB – but the other 99.9% of the world's population don't have to have the radio equivalent of “eat nothing but McDonalds burgers & Coke” just because a minority of myopic American PDs are incapable of realizing that there is more than that “out there” than their own somewhat narrow, blinkered perception of the world.’

Thanks for your succinct summing up of this product – it is a narrowcast radio station, with narrow, unimaginative jingles. And that is sad…

Lastly I did not even mention JAM in my critique, which I thought FAIR and FACTUAL.

Len

[applejack]

Len….you need to sit through another 50 or so vocal session. Why? Because there IS a male voice in the KDWB 2009 pkg. I do agree with you that the typical listener would say it is all female because it is mixed to where the female dominates the mix. Which brings us back to the same back and forth discussion we are having….THIS PKG IS FOR KDWB and for the KDWB DEMOGRAPHIC. A male dominating vocal mix would NOT work for KDWB. There is a reason for these things. Oh and by the way, Rob Morris is a seasoned Program Director that knows his stuff…he is definitely not a kid in nappies. He has been programming KDWB, a heritage station, for a long time and since 2001 he has continued to pick Tony Valdez's productions. Let's open our minds and simply accept diversity.

Applejack-

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