[barrydavidallanbda]

But we may think there are better packages out there …but the normal listener to bbc local isnt going to know how good a jingle is..because they dont listen out for them…It truth this jingle product is poor and maybe some high up needs to ask the question ..Why did the bbc give a contract to a company to supply a product ..when this company has little background in this product…

[fredgreek]

Seems that BBC Radio Lincolnshire switched away from the old Maximum Production package (The one which was shared with BBC Radio Gloucestershire who are still using it), and changed to BBC Lincolnshire only yesterday!

[simon_t123Member]

I stand corrected re: Lincolnshire, I think I got lumbered with a “listen again” program lols I'd imagine they use the same musical logo as Merseyside ? Trying to think now which stations have had a package the longest from the Beeb locals, possibly the Leeds / Stoke & Kent IQ Beats package is near it's use life ?

Interesting point about your is that the logo sounds out “BBC York” and you'd think any rebrand of imaging would mark the change to the on-air use of BBC York yet BBC Radio York still remains the stations name as used on-air …

[DavidHemsley]

Here are a few examples . . .

http://jinglemad.com/e107_files/public/1259727263_4_FT75978_mcasso_examples_2009.mp3 filename:mcasso_examples_2009.mp3

[LenGroat]

These are PERFECT for the majority of BBC Local radio stations!!

Pedestrian, Unimaginative, Old-fashioned, Dull, Safe….

If they had been commercial, 75% of these stations would have merged or closed by now for low ratings.

It is surely time the BBC licence fee was scrapped. 'BBC Worldwide' is VERY commerical, so why not make BBC radio take advertising. Then, if they could not support themselves, close them down.

[OnyxPaulMember]

OMG. They sound like they belong on a third rate hospital radio station! I would imagine many of the on-air staff are furious.

[barrydavidallanbda]

The beds sound like they are from a bbc sitcom
Could I be talking about ALAN PARTRIDGE, the cheesy chat show host created by the comic actor Steve Coogan,

Anyone got some time on their hands .. mix in Radio Norwich ALAN PARTRIDGE over one of those beds ..

[mbMember]

Are these a candidate for the worst Imaging of the decade in the last throws of 09?

[malexander]

They dont sound right at all, what is the 'logo' all about.
Not the kind of thing that makes a good listen.
Has anyone given these guys any feedback?

[IainJohnstonMember]

Well, to give the whole thing a fair go, I tried listening to a few “in context” over BBC iPlayer.
Opinion – Very, very weak and insipid. No “life” in them at all.

Now listening to David's sampler, the 3-note “logo bits” immediately reminded me of something from long long ago – “The Evans & Martin Frontal Sound” has been brought back with 21st century technology (but not as “good” as the original!)!!!

The plain sequence of major key “A-B-C” notes in the logo are not exactly the most “taxing” to “create”at a keyboard either – anyone with a keyboard why not try playing something like the PAMS “KFWB Channel Ninety-Eight” logo from Series 18, ot the “WNBC Radio Sixty-Six” TM 1970 one, or JAM's “Britain's Favourite Radio One” etc etc, and hear how the mere 8 notes in an octave (plus the “black” keys) can be used to “sweep” up and down when creating a melody.

As for the “instrumentation” – it sounds like its been produced (sic) using the £6-99 Magix Entertainment “Music Maker” and “Music Painter” CD that I had for my Windows 95 “386” PC(and I still have the CD somewhere – must try it…).

A primary school child could have done this better – but no doubt the package will win first prize for “Creative & Original Ident Production” at the next Sony Awards…

(Thought the last cut was much, much better – the Christmas one – until I realised it was the new JingleNetwork Christmas one!)

[LenGroat]

Iain

Your thorough summary and thoughts were more focussed than my 'gag reflex' reply!

I can add though that ANY station that uses these voice only idents (be it BBC or Commercial) is forgetting the basic fact that you CANNOT SING IT ! With so many stations now available MEMORABILITY has to be even more important, and back in the 60's Coca Cola did not have:

male voice: 'Things go better'
female voice: 'with Coca Cola'
male voice: 'things go better with Coke'

However, some good news. As these dull idents swamp all BBC local radio stations, an imaginative/adventurous commercial group will soon be launching a selection of (complementary) packages for the stations it runs, produced in different styles to suit the different needs of their areas.

But it's clear that with this lack-lustre/ unimaginative material with no singing, about to take over, BBC Local radio is unlikely to be of interest to Jinglemadders for some years?

Finally, I could be sceptical, and suggest that maybe the BBC bosses WANT to lose audience on local stations so it can merge or close them and use the money for its Nationals? Remember what they did INTENTIONALLY to Radio 1 to stop the government making it commercial…

Len

[barrydavidallanbda]

But lets look at the cost.. A bbc basic sung package £3000 with a two year life.

How much must these new jingles be costing.. The beds are generic.. so thats been paid for … and its the cost of the voice overs and the Studio cost to mix them… So on paper the bbc may have saved £2500 per station x 40 stations…

On paper the bbc looks like its got its act together when in truth the new package is a reason for people to tune away …because these jingles dont gel with the format and music or mix with the flow of each station

But top marks to the BBC .. lets pay the Big names on air at BBC radio 1 and 2 lots of cash and save money on the local stations on “an audio sign that guides listeners to each local station”

Maybe the Radio times should now say tune your radio dial on to FM till you hear a cheap crap jingle

[OnyxPaulMember]

The saying 'Lost The Plot' springs to mind when thinking of the bosses who approved of this dreadful idea!

[simon_t123Member]

David Hemsley has uploaded some examples that sound like they come direct from the supplier MCasso … I'm up in Peterborough this weekend & can hear them on Lincolnshire. What's not impressive is how stations are using them

[IainJohnstonMember]

Reflecting on Len's comments…
MEMORABILITY has to be even more important,
and back in the 60's Coca Cola did not have:
male voice: 'Things go better'
female voice: 'with Coca Cola'
male voice: 'things go better with Coke'

It's not often I visit the TM Studios website, but on their “JingleBank” page for commercial jingles, at the following link…
http://www.jinglebank.com/?esource=tmRt

…Paragraphs 5 through 8 very neatly paraphrase precisely what Len is saying (I can't cut & paste the words, its all in Flash).

BBC Locals have often in the past been criticised as being “dull, for old people”, although I've heard airchecks of BBC locals over the “real-ILR” years sounding as bright and dynamic as their commercial rival “across town” but without the ads; as Len says, maybe they're once again at some obtuse move to “bore listeners away” as part of the Beeb's latest wave of being obcessed with “yoof”.

[fredgreek]

In my opinion, they are a huge step backwards for BBC Local Radio – particularly for the ones which have had sung jingles in the past.

What's the average lifespan of a jingle package? Is it somewhere between 2-5 years? I hope this package doesn't last much longer than that (I say that, not meaning to disrespect Mcasso) – if the bosses have any sense, the money “saved” through a generic package can be used to buy each station a fully sung package in the future.

[timbo]

ST wrote:
….Trying to think now which stations have had a package the longest from the Beeb locals, possibly the Leeds / Stoke & Kent IQ Beats package is near it's use life ?…..

Yes I know that Kent is taking the new package from Feb/March 2010, Sussex retaining theirs as is London…for now.

[simon_t123Member]

Interesting news Timbo I'd imagine the package will keep popping up randomly, for Kent another variation on the theme for a guess with Kent having just the one syllable … I've wondered how they will shoe-horn the “BBC Hereford & Worcester” logo into this package ! BBC London seems a little too high profile to take this package anyway, they're still married to the tv news theme for London ?

[LenGroat]

Looking through the topics in this forum I noticed THIS one had 3630 people READ it since October 13!!

BUT the other posts from around that time only had 300-400 reads.

I think we'd all agree that 'JingleMadders' are known to not have a vast interest in BBC Local radio, so this begs the question:

WHO were the 3300 OTHER people who read this topic?

MY GUESS? BBC local radio staff !

BUT how many of them have actually CONTRIBUTED comments, positive or negative, on the new 'identifcation'?

Err…… hmmmmm ?

[simon_t123Member]

Len … agreed ! Well said Of course there may well be for Beeb staff “contractural” reasons to keep quiet ? Who knows !

I'm not sure why Beeb local stations jingles interest so many, perhaps it's because there's a long and varied history of them being used in the sector ?

I know they've been to JAM before on numerous occasions, and pretty much most of the big companies have been tasked with producing material, including Wise Buddah & Groove, but not Reelworld to my knowledge !!!

The Mcasso website mentions them winning the “pitch” to supply all 40 Beeb locals with imaging back in the summer, so I imagine companies all had a shot at pitching for the brief. It may well have come down to cost, especially as times are “tuff” and mr & mrs licence fee payer need to be kept happier than they otherwise would be if zillions were spent on a better station sound !

It's funny but for me I'm keen to find stations using the material on my travels to find out how they use it, it's an imaging kit that is quite bland but still seems to appeal to me in a listening sense …

We'd better get used to it that's for sure !!!

[barrydavidallanbda]

Len ..maybe we should ask all Jingle companies in the UK and USA if the BBC asked them to pitch for the job..because if they didnt it was a one horse race….and maybe a BBC person got it wrong

[southwestman]

The package is airing on BBC Devon, they started the new year with a new schedule and introduced these jingles… they sound random on air at the moment but I'm sure the listening auidence will soon get used to them.

[barrydavidallanbda]

Get used to them Or they are stuck with them..Its like the stations I have been with ..you may enjoy a quality sung set of station jingles and like the way it can mix to another song..or you can have Cr*p package and as a presenter you turn off when the jingles are being played and enjoy the music around them …..Maybe thats what the listeners are doing at bbc local

[timbo]

Had a chance, because of the snow, to hear some of them now on Devon, Essex etc etc online. I'm obviously going to be in the minority and say that they don't seemed to sound too bad.
Yes…I would obviously prefer big budget sung jingles to return, that isn't going to happen any time soon (although maybe now JR isn't renewing a contract perhaps some budget will get freed up to spend in the regions).
Do we sometimes get a bit caught up in expectation on this forum? Just because it's not the station sound that we want to hear?
And just my opinion but I can't imagine employees worried on contractual terms about making comments on their local BBC station jingle packages. Perhaps they don't think they are too bad?

[mbMember]

There is so much wrong in BBC local radio at the moment that the jingles are way down the list of worries.

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