[IainJohnstonMember]

“I’m happy enough with the concept of the Mcasso package even if the quality leaves a lot to be desired, I like the uniform sound so long as it maintains local tweaks & elements, as for many stations it does.”

Apologies for repeating myself (again!) but if France Bleu can consistantly do this with stylish sung custom jingles that provide the appropriate levels of ID for their complex layers of local & network services & interaction, then why are the BBC re-inventing the wheel – badly?

PS – I take it BBC Worldwide must be really coining-in the cash from the massive royalties from the vast number of re-sings/syndication of this incredibly successful McCasso package that must surely be in great demand by stations all around the planet?

[Vinnah]

Simon, I don’t think that the regional shows not being local has ever been a secret though. Nick Risby sometimes says the stations he’s broadcasting across and I’ve heard Sue welcoming another station on a Friday after their sports programme had finished.

Keith Skues also names every single station at the start of his show though I’ve noticed he classes Radio Cambridgeshire & Peterborough as separate stations for some reason.

[simon_t123Member]

Skues is old skool bless him, there was once a split for Radio Peterborough but nothing major, actually John Major was pictured when P.M “in the studio at Radio Peterborough” in some L.R publicity brochure …

Vinnah yep you are totally correct, they’ve not hidden the fact on air that they broadcast on all said stations, I think there was a phase tho’ when it was questioned how it should be imaged so as not to mislead the listener, they may hear Essex imaging and think Essex produces more local material when it does etc, of course there’s an argument there that if you are openly regional & all inclusive of your affiliate stations that you may as well do away with localised imaging (as per the generic news etc now) the local imaging works better inserted into a generic programme as per the old Mix / One Network than it does on openly regional shows … I don’t really think there’s a set formula for imaging & networking, across the country it varies so much, I hope with talk of a national 7pm show if forced on us then the subject of imaging is looked at, opts would have to work slickly wherever possible, historically in the UK radio networks have been far from slick at localising, interesting to watch/listen & see mind

On the subject of money, the formula to me seems to suggest BBC Worldwide get performance royalties when the LR’s play the cuts ? But surely that’s then mere internal charging ? Taking from one BBC pot to another ? Or … is it a clever form of (in the nicest possible way) “laundering” money from the licence fee funded LR’s to the commercial arm that is BBC Worldwide who knows … they were reluctant to release the full info on this following my freedom of info request (see a previously attached letter back to me from the beeb)

[Vinnah]

I’ve just found out that the clicking on the iPlayer also continues into up all night (Because 3CR hasn’t switched to CL Smooth for some reason) on 5 live. But not if you’re listening to it from the 5 live feed it’s self so it must separate the local and 5 live version that seems like an inefficient use of bandwidth.

You make a good point Simon about having a generic East logo but I think that still having the local jingles playing makes more sense especially if you don’t have a radio with RDS and you’re travelling through the area or something, it would be useful to know which station you’re on rather than “BBC In the East”, if they want to use generic ones they should use those ones I posted a few weeks ago when there’s a technical error just for some variation of course .

[local_12]

Just noticed that BBC Radio Jersey seems to have refreshed their news build from the Shropshire version to the Essex one. Have any other stations done this?

[simon_t123Member]

Not that I know of local_12 … but they ruddy well need too Essex itself needs to update it’s own ! it’s been in use for like 3 years now ? I was wondering if the stations got the whole lot delivered at the start of the project with either their own logo or literally the whole lot ? the previous network-wide “twinkles” imaging in the early 00’s appeared to have a massive library of material for use that could be seen on loads of ‘BBC’ marked CD’s in Essex’s studios & other stations. It would make sense for stations using Mcasso to be able to update their sound as required, as I say Essex is sounding very stale by now, the early adopting stations should do something surely within the next year ?

[local_12]

Not a lot to talk about but Mcasso have redesigned their website with LR coming under the heading ‘Station Branding’. On the demo the caption states that the package is ‘airing on all 40 stations across the UK’ but Cumbria and London haven’t changed yet.

[IainJohnstonMember]

‘airing on all 40 stations across the UK’

Just to nitpick a tiny wee bit…technically Jersey & the Bailiwick of Guernsey are NOT part of the UK; and Scotland IS part of the UK (for now…) but there’s NO BBC Local Radio here.

[LenGroat]

Wixy: “Scotland IS part of the UK (for now…)” For now (?)

Extrapolating that comment, what do you think may happen to a certain syndicated station claiming to be the ‘Capital’ (even though they are in Glasgow!) and another that broadcasts 24 hours a day from London to Scotland? This referendum may rather put HEAVY pressure on them to do at least 12 hours a day LOCALLY ? That might mean some jingles more in tune with the locality?

“but there’s NO BBC Local Radio here”

Maybe the BBC know something the English politicians don’t?

The Old Man

[IainJohnstonMember]

Good topical question Len!
I won’t go into this one deeply here – maybe its more for the D-S/Radio Forum.

The fact though that “Capital”‘s output is “controlled” by a certain Scot (ex-Kirkcaldy…) might or might not be a factor at some point. Considering though that Global are likely to have “exited” and flogged it all off to another “foreign venture capital company” long before potential Scottish Independence is more likely.

“no BBC Local…here” – official population total 5.25 million (plus the ones that aren’t “on the books”…but that’s not for on here…) so really probably was never likely to achieve a proper BBC set of even individual “city stations” – e.g. Glasgow/Edinburgh/Dundee/Aberdeen – that might have had comparable audiences to the 50-million-plus-population “down South” of English cities or “Radio County/shire” – so BBC Radio Scotland is the lot (the “opt-outs” and the “teuchter station” don’t really have any meaningful audiences).

Don’t get me wrong though – BBC Scotland do a VERY good job indeed within their own particular remit and the technicalities of covering a land area equal to nearly 40% of that of the size of England!

[simon_t123Member]

I never thought of wixy1360’s point actually about the population of Scotland, I think without thinking about it you see this huge land-mass on a map so I, myself question why the country has just the one, main BBC station whilst making very little use of opt outs even, there would be potential there, for localised breakfast & drive but it’s never been that way, same in Wales & N.I too I suppose, tho’ N.I have an opt out with BBC Foyle … I’ve always wondered mind why the output of the BBC Nations stations sounds so high-brow, so serious, more Radio Four than your typical BBC Local & maybe that’s a reason why listener-ship has never really been spectacular ? From a jingles & imaging point of view they’ve been dire over the years, apart from Wales it has to be said (even BBC Cymru) who have in recent times employed sung ID’s and a more modern presentation format, there’s so much that can be done with these large areas tho’ I am sure … with Scotland, I’ve been wondering what Scottish independence would do to the BBC north of the border ?

[local_12]

By the way, BBC Radio Cumbria has changed with the Gloustershire version of the news build and travel.

[star tetley]

Is it just London left?

[local_12]

Yes, London is left, also I noticed BBC WM tweaked the schedule with Joanne Malin and Adrian Goldberg swapping their weekday shows. They also refreshed the presenter ID’s bringing in longer talkover beds.

[local_12]

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but with the DQF cuts cancelling split breakfast shows does that mean Sussex and Surrey will stop seperate programming, if so a return to the Southern Counties name may be inevitable.

[simon_t123Member]

still nice to see the news dribbling in for Mcasso stations I’d hope to see the first stations refreshing their cuts soon … I was comparing Essex with Kent & there really is no contest, Kent wins hands down !!! it’s a fresher, more commercial sound anyway than Essex which has grown old within itself, as the old Radio 1 was accused of doing … a new broom might be needed there, and some new imaging

London is still Music 4, tho’ with recent Mcasso’d bigger stations sounding actually quite ok, London may as well hang up their ‘Music4’ boots & make the change …

local_12 I’m not in the know, but DQF cuts have recently been lightened, to what degree I’m not sure but with Sussex / Surrey operating as separate entities I wonder if it would be classed as being a split breakfast show ? I know they share almost everything but name but with patches as big as theirs I’d like to think the individual shows might not be cut ? where there might be cause to make savings could be Peterborough with it’s award winning brekkie show, might as well take your best troop & run him countywide from Peterborough & axe the 2nd place show … they’ve invested a lot of money in Peterborough, a complete Calrec X studio way before Cambridge changed from Mk3’s but they axed the Radio Peterborough name many years ago, I’d consider that a split brekkie show, not sure actually if there are any others ? ones that divide a county say ? I think if it’s one county it should be one station, one set of shows, no English county is big enough to really need splitting but individual counties like in the case of Sussex & Surrey should be separately represented, dare I say MORE than they are already, they’ve gone to the trouble of using separate names so why not make the chop and return to running separate stations ? Berkshire holds it’s own since the days it was bundled with BBC Oxford & that Thames Valley FM business …

[local_12]

Yes, I think Sussex/Surrey should have seperate breakfast,drivetime and news updates…like they had before! About split breakfast, Milton Keynes should keep its own what with being part of a big region: Three Counties but I’m a bit biased to MK having lived there . Plymouth and Swindon are the other two but I don’t know how successful they are. It’s funny how a place like Teesside gets its own station only simulcasting late nights when East and West Sussex have to share with Surrey

[simon_t123Member]

I notice the sharing drive with Kent pilot scheme dies a death, now that was totally flawed from the start ! it was imaged OK mind & Dominic King is a slick presenter but Sussex, Surrey AND Kent ?! Someone was taking the wee wee with that idea, and … as for saving money, the displaced drivetime presenter from Sussex/Surrey seemed to always be located in the S/S studios just for reading travel out to the whole region ! Perhaps it was set up to fail ? The stations can’t of wanted that degree of sharing, which does make a mockery of ‘Local Radio’ … I think we’re safe mind as MP’s are jumping on the bandwagon, I think it works out that LR cost peanuts to run compared to the likes of Radio 4 anyway … if anything is to be cut, let it be add-on services the Beeb churn out that we don’t really need, Local Radio should be the grassroots of it’s UK news gathering operation anyway ! I shall get down off the soap-box now haha Seriously mind I hope they don’t slice off any localised brekkie shows, I’d imagine a lot of thought went into the planning & launching of each one & if you get rid of those then you may as well backtrack & close down BBC C&W again !!!

The theory on BBC Tees … hmmm I went into BBC Essex once for a meeting about an automated programme for the overnights to keep things local, and I used the fact Newcastle, Manchester & even Sheffield at the time were local all night … The reply I got was all to do with audience justification, it would appear up North the locals are better resourced & sound sharper in main as a lot of their areas are well to over-populated, I think the Teeside are is a busy place ? Tho’ I don’t know my Geography to know if the old “Cleveland” patch is a part rural county or what really …

Interesting stuff anyway as for your interest in MK, that’s justified, the Beds, Herts, Bucks are is HUGE & historically has been ‘bundled’ together by the beeb & ILR when maybe it deserved to be otherwise so, again I don’t know the areas intimately but does MK have much in common with say Luton or does Herts have much in common with Bucks ?

Finally … if anything the beeb should roll out a seperate service to Dorset !!!!!! Especially in light of the Somerset situation, where not only did Somerset get kitted out with the latest Calrec X type spec but also pinched Radio Bristols wider area frequency for itself lols, Dorset does not deserve to be bundled with Solent really as it’s a massive area to cover … Nuff said lols …

[IainJohnstonMember]

Looks like someone else has cottoned-on to the BBC Local /Radio 2 dodge of wanting to keep the “publishing rights” to their jingles to themselves, even if a jingle producer (maybe a small one?) actually does the audio work…

http://radiotoday.co.uk/2012/02/absolute-radio-introduces-new-sonic-logo/

If “they” really want to destroy the ID jingle industry by “forcing” production companies into “competing” for no-royalty / no syndication revenue just (maybe) basically “the recording session” then they’re certainly hell-bent upon it.

We’ll soon be back pre-PAMS-era with stations with their own “house band” to do their home-made jingles…and its already happening…
(..but please make an exception for the BBC “live” jingles for Chris Moyles…the BBC Concert Orchestra has got to be THE ultimate “house band” for any radio organisation – and would they do “Personal cuts”…)

[tom_h]

Mcasso have updated their website. Now includes some individual BBC Local Cuts and states that BBC London’s package is coming soon.

[simon_t123Member]

Some great editions to the Mcasso site and darn that BBC London square for playing a 2 second blank sound clip haha … from the names given to cuts there it looks like BBC Manchester may have commissioned it’s own travel theme, the others are duplicated across the network, Sheffield sport mind, I’d not heard that before … now off to Adobe Audition to ‘dub’ the cuts haha

[local_12]

Some great editions to the Mcasso site and darn that BBC London square for playing a 2 second blank sound clip haha … from the names given to cuts there it looks like BBC Manchester may have commissioned it’s own travel theme, the others are duplicated across the network, Sheffield sport mind, I’d not heard that before … now off to Adobe Audition to ‘dub’ the cuts haha

Yes, same dissapointment on the BBC London clip…the question is how soon until the new jingles? By the way, the Manchester travel is also used on Wiltshire, Kent and I think Leicester. Also the Sheffield sport is a rare one but I’ve also heard it on 3CR.

[star tetley]

‘London 2012 is mentioned on the site. Could they be launched at the start of the Olympics?

[mbMember]

I think the Music 4 package will be on London until the very last possible moment that they cab be and thier licence covers them. I don’t think they will implement them a moment before. I draw my own conclusions from them holding out so long that they might not be the biggest fans of the Mcasso sound.
The revenue from the jingles on countywide FM is peanuts but once they air on BBC London they start earning some sizable dosh – That BBC Worldwide want!
It is a sad fact that Mcasso were paid to make the jingles and they are not licenced so the BBC can air them forever and keep paying themselves royalities.
These jingles could be around for a VERY long time, I suspect stations won’t get new cuts but they’ll be “Rotated” to give the package a “fresh” sound.
We might be listening to them in 2012 – i’m sure someone in BBC WWW will argue if Radio 2 can make thier cuts last 18 years BBC Local radio can do the same with the ones they have.

[NickySMember]

I’ve heard some of the London stuff so I doubt it will be that much longer before it’s on air.

[Author]

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