[IainJohnstonMember]

More likely TLRC have run out of money! (…and I'm a small shareholder!
… down to about 8p a share even before the latest financial distasters).

Sweepers are cheap to make, and minimal airplay costs – sung jingles are
expensive to make, and still have to ring up a payment for each time broadcast.

[mumoss]

Wixy1360 wrote:
Sweepers are cheap to make, and minimal airplay costs – sung jingles are
expensive to make, and still have to ring up a payment for each time broadcast.

Actually, this is something I've been meaning to ask for a while – how does paying for jingle broadcasts work? I know it's to do with the PRS, but beyond that I get fuzzy. Do different companies charge different amounts, or is it a set rate, for instance?

[IainJohnstonMember]

“Fuzzy” is definately the right word! Between PPL, PRS, MCPS,…etc. There's been discussion
here and on DS many times, especially after the Moyles “write your own jingles (or at least
just the “lyrics”), play them in high rotation on your own show as often as you want, get paid
for them every play, etc” debate a wee while back.

I think that the US-style “buy-out” rights (buy once, no residuals, no airplay fee for jingles)
system doesn't happen here, as they don't have the multiple “rights” fee-collecting
merry-go-round of the UK for ALL on-air music. Recently there's been a legal move in the
States to actually bring in a requirement for US stations to pay for airplay of music in a way
that we already have, rather than the very low-cost minimal sysytem there at present (where
apparently the artistes don't actually get radio play royalties at all, just the copyright owner
or writers?)

A historical note or two: years back, Radio Clyde then had to pay approx £3 PER PLAY of a
typical “pop chart single” when it cost less than that to buy the 7″ vinyl of the item in a shop.

Also, when musicians' groups in e.g. Australia or the States occasionally tried to bring-in
airplay fee-paying, stations compiled “A” and “B” lists of songs, not for on-air rotation as
nowadays, but between
a) records that would attract a per-play airplay fee
b) records that would be free to air
so that if there was a “crunch”, they would be already able to decide what would be the most
economical to play or either avoid/play sparingly.

I think only a rights lawyer (oddly enough we have 2(?) on JM?) or someone deeply steeped
in station management (cue Prometheous?) could probably tell us the real UK situation as
it stands nowadays. I know there's something about songs may not actually get paid for
on a true “quantity of plays” basis, but instead some sort of “averaging” thing?…”fuzzy“…

PS – to this day, I don't know if any UK “airplay royalties” for JAM or other US jingle producers
collected “on their behalf” (sic) by UK authorities over the years actually reaches them?

[theniceguy]

I believed i once heard a story Jon missed out on a lot of the BBC royalties from the 80's because he was too late in claiming them.

Several Dutch producers actively approach the Music Rights organisations (like our BUMA/STEMRA) in different countries every year to get their money's worth. Sending list of which jingles were used on what station. And claiming the money.

And it's highly lucrative. To give you a small example. To my knowledge (for what it's worth) Jon still has a small plane called 'BUMA'.

[DevawebMember]

Wixy1360 wrote: I think only a rights lawyer (oddly enough we have 2(?) on JM?) or someone deeply steeped
in station management (cue Prometheous?) could probably tell us the real UK situation as it stands nowadays.

…or a PRS composer

The simple version is this… stations pay a PRS royalty fee that is based on their income. Then, a few times a year they supply details of everything they've played out over specific days chosen by PRS. This includes commercial hits, jingles, music in commercials, talk-over beds, everything basically.

Because it's based on revenue, bigger stations are worth more than smaller stations. A track of mine that was played on Heart Breakfast for around a year paid out much better than, say, if the same track played out on a smaller ILR station.

The royalty fee is split between the composer(s) and the publisher(s). So when a Kingdom FM jingle is played, the composing fee is split between myself and Dave Bethell, and the publishing fee goes to TM, via a sub-publisher.

Now, the ASCAP situation in the states is different, and I'm no expert on that, except to say that the two associations are affiliated, so in theory, UK composers get money for work on air in the US and vice versa. It's not an overly quick system though.

That's Royalties 101. I still can't afford a yacht from my royalties though. Boo hiss.

[IainJohnstonMember]

Thanks for that “straight from the horse's mouth” Chris!

You must surely be doing OK with Kingdom FM though! – the TM package really does
get very heavy air use (as it should of course), especially in automation at night when
its like hearing a Scottish equivalent of French Nostalgie, Cherie FM, Vibration, etc with
a jingle or at least some ID between EVERY record.

[DevawebMember]

As it happens, my company Devaweb looks after their other imaging, so you're hearing a lot more of my stuff than you realise! It also means that I can create extra Kingdom logos on the fly for special promotions and events, which is always fun.

And even though the jingle royalty rate for the smaller stations isn't anything that impressive, I'd always rather work with a station like Kingdom who have imaging as a really high priority over a station who don't really care about their station sound. The dedication those guys have for their station is always 110%.

I visited them for the first time in July (along with Mary and David from TM) and wow, what a great view from the station building!

[AndiMember]

I agree it is a great view on the east coast main railway line. Kingdom have recently lost a FAB presnter to real radio in the form of Micky Gavin though.

[IainJohnstonMember]

“what a great view from the station building!”

Markinch is not quite(!!!) downtown New York City or Paris…but its what comes out of the transmitters that matters!

[mumoss]

Sorry, meant to reply to this thread a while back. Thanks to Wixy and Chris for the info above

[cserpentuk]

Erm hang on, isn't this about the 6th time TLRC has changed Alpha's naming style?

[Author]

Posts