[danjamesuk]

Now, I’m not normally one to bitch. Indeed, I’ll normally support colleagues in the industry to the hilt, but I couldn’t help but be shockingly disappointed by Steve England’s latest efforts.

Listen to Kismat Radio’s new package at http://www.steveengland.com/ids.html.

The vocals are out of tune, badly mixed and the timing is awful. This really has to be the worst re-sing of a JAM package I think I’ve ever heard.

Shame on you, Steve England Studios! If I’d have produced these resings, I’d have been too ashamed to release them. The passion you hopefully still have for the business should have stopped you from releasing such a dire monstrosity!

All you need to do is cut in some comedy lines and you have another spoof demo, a-la the old Alfasound spoofs of the early 90s.

Bad.

Dan

[DevawebMember]

I must admit I was a bit surprised when I heard it as well. I thought the mix was also a bit lob-sided, the tracks seemed a bit low in places and the harmonies were a bit harsh. I suppose we must remember though that the station is on AM, maybe it helps the words cut through better?

I did like the vocals on the BBC Oxford package further down the page though. Has anyone heard the package on air?

[danjamesuk]

BBC Oxford… nice effort, but a bit dated, and WHY, in the most English of English counties, must we get English singers to sing “ARKSFERRD” instead of “OXFORD”?!!!

Also, whilst the top of hour ID is quite nice, there is a point where they use (I presume) a sample from the David Lowe BBC News ident – just the drum beats – but they cut it off before it’s finished!

See… it’s that lack of attention to detail that bugs me!

However, on the flip-side of the coin, perhaps the management wanted Americanised “Oxford” sings, but that doesn’t forgive S2Blue for the badly sliced sample!

Still, not a bad package, all things considered!

[RobinBlamires]

danjamesuk wrote: The vocals are out of tune, badly mixed and the timing is awful. This really has to be the worst re-sing of a JAM package I think I’ve ever heard.

You have to love their take on Z-Force cut 17.
“WAAKE UUUUP! 😉

[UKJinglesMember]

Totally agree…Yukkk…….”Designed for the Thinking People who are proud to be Asian”……Whats All that about?!?!?
The only station that I know of,,, that instead of getting a new Jingle Package every year or two Gets a NEW Radio station as well!!! 😆
To be fair….The new Saga stuff is nice!

[mbMember]

Dan James!
As the person who flys off the handle at any criticism of jingle companies in recent months and goes on and on and on about how sensitive creative people are I’m shocked to see you launch into such an attack on a fellow producer!!
You are more than entitled to post and make comments but having made such a stand and berated people for making any criticism of jingle producers work I’m sorry but I can’t help feel you’ve excercised a bit of a double standard….
Especially with the title of the thread you have created and criticism that falls well short of the considered constructive critisism that you have previously demanded.
Reel it in a bit…………………

The Oxford stuff I really really like – I agree with Chris for all those who bemoan about Steves vocals its a different voice and I think it stands up rather well. I’m not sure that its so dated rather not as cutting edge and contemporary as Leeds but then again BBC locals in the north are a little more upbeat than the stodgy old south. I would say that for BBC Oxford its quite modern. – however in my humble opinionit doesn’t really suit the station – would be great on another station I just don’t think its BBC Oxford.

But on the “dodgy things” in other packages at least three recent ones spring to mind.
There are couple of dodgy sings / effects in the Sheffield / Berkshire package – and from your own colleagues at IQ Beats that it should be cliVE Bull and not cli Bull and breakfast has a T on the end when singing Nick Ferrari cuts! I’m still not sure what breakfasssssssssssssssss is?

Kismat truly suffers from having one of the worst strap lines in history.I mean “for the asians in London” Arugggggghhhhhhhhhhhh but then again who created it – not Steve. Is it not the jingle producers nightmare of stations dreaming up crappy slogans and expecting them to fit into an existing logo.

Maybe we could agree on some inconsistances in quality!!

[danjamesuk]

Michael,

I apparently “fly off the handle”. I apparently “berate people” for any criticism (actually, you’ll find it’s only “harsh, personal criticism”, such as you’ve been previously responsible). You tell me I “go on and on and on”. With your level of criticism, it’s clear to see why I’ve been upset by your terminology in the past, and I believe you too need to exercise a little decorum. Try to be more constructive, and less personal, and please get your facts right before making your accusations.

You also referred to my colleagues at IQ Beats. I’m proud to say that whilst I produced their wave of UK demos, I am not employed by them. Let’s get that clear right now, before my employers get twitchy about this!

As for the Oxford package, I don’t think my criticism was particularly harsh. As I pointed out (re the Americanised vocals on OXFORD), this was probably at the request of whoever commissioned the package. With respect to the top of hour cut, I can’t understand how they issued the package with such a glaringly obvious dodgy edit.

Re the Kismat Radio package… Kismat is owned by the same people who own Sunrise in Bradford and London. They’ve bought many of the same cuts they’ve been using on Sunrise for a while. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t, but I HOPE Steve England, as part of the whole consultative process, advised that this package may not be appropriate for their station. If he sold the package just for the sake of selling a package, I think that’s an exercise in extremely bad customer service. With regards to the production quality, despite what you see as ‘double standards’, I felt, as a producer, I HAD to make a stand in this instance.

I’m often accused of being TOO passionate about my work. I’m also passionate about others’, and… as a producer… it saddens me when companies churn out material that quite obviously appears to have had no love put into it. This I believe to be the case with the Kismat package. The harmonies are all over the place, the phrasing doesn’t sound like it’s even been thought about (let alone rehearsed), and I’m stunned that Steve and co, despite their sterling services to the industry in the past, have allowed this set of resings out of their building.

I refuse to allow anything out of my studio that could be considered even remotely sub-standard. I have heard DEMO cuts produced by Steve England that sound BETTER than this finished package.

With regards to you singling out the Radio Sheffield package and a selection of IQ material Michael, I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I’m not going to rise to it and get riled by your comments! I suspect you mention these because (a) I posted a request for the Sheffield package not so long ago, which you kindly responded to and (b) you’re aware of my involvement with IQ Beats. Also, perhaps I could take you to task on your initial comments about jumping to the defence of my colleagues in the industry. I know you’re referring to posts you’ve previously made. However, you have been rather personal before Michael, singling out individuals for their total inadequacy and lack of ability. Here, I’m criticising a group of seasoned producers and singers who ARE capable, but in this case, simply should’ve known better. I’ve criticised you previously Michael, for getting personal, not for making reasonable criticism.

Sorry if you think I’m exercising double standards. Trust me, it takes a LOT for me to openly criticise a ‘fellow producer’, and as you know, I wouldn’t normally do it, but in the case of the Kismat resings, the quality is inexcusable and I truly believe the station in question has been provided with what Watchdog would describe as “shoddy goods”!

For a company that has produced a hell of a lot of good, memorable material, I’m really, very disappointed.

[mbMember]

As for the Oxford package, I don’t think my criticism was particularly harsh. As I pointed out (re the Americanised vocals on OXFORD), this was probably at the request of whoever commissioned the package. With respect to the top of hour cut, I can’t understand how they issued the package with such a glaringly obvious dodgy edit.

Fair point Dan – i’m not saying it was all harsh but as i am sure you are very well aware stations get to hear stuff all the way through the process and if the person comissioning didn’t raise it then its goods produced as approved as far as I see it. The same as when Radio 1 went through its big change and some of the new producers slated some of the JAM cuts – but they were a custom so the station got what it asked for.

Re the Kismat Radio package… Kismat is owned by the same people who own Sunrise in Bradford and London. They’ve bought many of the same cuts they’ve been using on Sunrise for a while. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t, but I HOPE Steve England, as part of the whole consultative process, advised that this package may not be appropriate for their station. If he sold the package just for the sake of selling a package, I think that’s an exercise in extremely bad customer service. With regards to the production quality, despite what you see as ‘double standards’, I felt, as a producer, I HAD to make a stand in this instance.

Again fair enough but both you and I know that people sometimes want stuff that is not what you’d like but where do you draw the line – refuse tosing a strap line cos you think its crap? I’ve found as I get older that more and more of my work has to be a comprimise that if I had it my way wouldn’t happen the way it does – but at the end of the day if my boss wants x thats what he gets. Hes happy I’m comprimised – but stay employed!!

I’m often accused of being TOO passionate about my work. I’m also passionate about others’, and… as a producer… it saddens me when companies churn out material that quite obviously appears to have had no love put into it.

But asking for the restrain you ask of others you don’t know that its an opinion. I think the same of some other stuff but have equally as little proof.

With regards to you singling out the Radio Sheffield package and a selection of IQ material Michael, I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I’m not going to rise to it and get riled by your comments! I suspect you mention these because (a) I posted a request for the Sheffield package not so long ago, which you kindly responded to and (b) you’re aware of my involvement with IQ Beats.

no i have to correct that
Radio Sheffield because I was listening to it not long ago with the Berkshire cuts and there are a couple of dodgey things that both I and my friends noticed. I’d forgotten that you were looking for it -If I had it I’d do you a copy but I got a listen only opportunity !!
IQ Beats yes certainly because of your involvement. Because like you I dont understand how some cuts get out the door of producers- they don’t sound right… The LBC stuff is on the whole quite nice but those two cuts the words aren’t clear and trail off.

For a company that has produced a hell of a lot of good, memorable material, I’m really, very disappointed.

I would agree that its not the best – frustrating as Steve has produced some cracking packages both musivally and vocally – Saga is a great example. Why Kismat is like it is i really don’t know!!!

Actually I DO respect your opinions Dan, but you dont half wind me up sometimes – but its all in good spirit – Boards without debate and strong feelings are dull. 😆

[cubwolfMember]

As a general rule do jam have any say whats sung over their tracks?

Oh and i like the oxford ones

[Inferno]

I think Steve’s resings for Quaywest Gold are good. He always makes a decent job of the Pams resings but hit and miss with the JAM tracks. Some of the vocals aren’t bad on the Kismat package but some, as stated, could do better. Regarding the slogans Steve is doing what is specified by the radio station. Pity Kismat was happy with second best. What was needed was a programme controller to be a little more demanding. Like i say the Steve England singers do have the ability to be good singers.
I would like to hear from Steve England towers to at least hear his version of events.

[OnyxPaulMember]

Although many of us here have been/are customers of Steve’s the fact is that he doesn’t have to explain himself to us, and why should he? Regardless of what any of us may think, if the customer is happy with them then Steve has mission accomplished. I personally think it is a terrible shame that jingle producers rarely get praised when they make a good package but absoluetly slated for the occasional bad one. The fact is that Steve has contributed more to the world of jingles than any other UK producer and long may he continue! I hope he takes the Kismat package off his site because it certainly is not a good example of his usually high standards.

[Inferno]

OnyxPaul wrote: Although many of us here have been/are customers of Steve’s the fact is that he doesn’t have to explain himself to us, and why should he? Regardless of what any of us may think, if the customer is happy with them then Steve has mission accomplished. I personally think it is a terrible shame that jingle producers rarely get praised when they make a good package but absoluetly slated for the occasional bad one. The fact is that Steve has contributed more to the world of jingles than any other UK producer and long may he continue! I hope he takes the Kismat package off his site because it certainly is not a good example of his usually high standards.

I couldnt agree more! It would’ve been nice though to hear his side of the arguement though. Having heard him on “Dont Touch that Dial” a few months ago he knows his jingles and radio agenda.
I get passionette about this subject,as well as others, because ive studied very closely, usually with headphones, the UK jingle vocal scene for years.
Everyone has slated the Kismat package but no one said anything about the singing on the Quaywest Gold which , in my opinion,was a good effort.
Like you say maybe Steve should take the Kismat package off and replace it, in my opinion, with the better sung Sabras Radio (Kiss and Tell JAM resing).

[RjM]

Go to agree with the majority, and say there’s something not quite right with those Kismat re-sings. The Easy Radio cuts produced for the same people (also UK sung JAM) don’t sound like this, which leads me to think that the station must have asked for them to be sung in this style to more closely replicate Asian sounding music/singing?? Asian Sound’s “Brite & Sunny” package from a few years ago has a very similar “twang” to the singing.

The Sabras Radio package mentioned above (Kiss & Tell) is a great set of JAM re-sings from Steve with UK singers, and with a similar format (CHR jingles on Asian station) proves it can be done and work.

Here’s a small montage of JAM cuts (1 from Top Format) sung with UK singers through Steve that prove the UK singers can and do sound good.

http://www.aoov41.dsl.pipex.com/SE_UK_Sings.mp3

The SAGA cuts are also excellent, I like the way the end melody has been changed slightly for each station.

[RobinBlamires]

I’m certain the 1458 Lite AM cut on that montage has American vocalists.

[RjM]

RobinBlamires wrote: I’m certain the 1458 Lite AM cut on that montage has American vocalists.

Yes you’re right! I’ve had a listen to the demo again and they are US sings. Just goes to prove that it can be hard to differentiate between the two at times, especially I think on “Heartbeat” re-sings (or do I just have really bad hearing!?!) Either way I’ve now removed the offending cut from the montage.

[Author]

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