[mbMember]

2010 is going to be an exciting year!!! This is going to keep us guessing all year!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/radio/network/radio2.shtml

So if you think you can do it – throw your hat in the ring!

This is the text from the publically available document available on the BBC Website.

OPPORTUNITY TO BID

Full Network Imaging Package 2011
CONTEXT
BBC Radio 2 is the UK’s most popular radio station with weekly reach of 13.7 million
listeners, who tune-in for an average of 12 hours a week (RAJAR Q310).
BBC Radio 2 is a distinctive music and speech network, targeted at a broad UK audience,appealing to all age groups over 35. We offer popular music and speech-based programmingincluding news and current affairs, documentaries, religion, arts, comedy and social action.
Our schedule contains some of the UK’s best-known broadcasters alongside specialist musicpresenters who are experts in their fields.
We play quality pop, rock and soul that is timeless and melodic from all genres to appeal and to surprise an adult listener. Our playlist of new releases covers a wide range of genres,with current album and featured tracks. BBC Radio 2 also features tracks and album cuts from all current popular and emerging music genres mixed with classic oldies.
BBC Radio 2’s Brand Values are; down to earth, warm, playful, smart, thoughtful and
accessible. Its audience is 35+ who are looking for music mixed with entertainment.

BRIEF
We are looking to commission a new network-wide imaging package for BBC Radio 2.
Our ambition is to create a strong, distinctive and dynamic package that, overall, reflects the full range of our programmes; from classical to pop, jazz to blues and news and live music.
The sound should be rich and anthemic and use real instrumentation to best effect. We are looking for modern production used in today’s music blended seamlessly with a variety of musical genres and eras. The package will also need to feature a range of group and solo vocals, all of which can stand-up to the artists we play.

FULL PACKAGE DELIVERABLES
It is anticipated the full package will consist of;
1 x News
1 x Travel Bed and Tag
20 x Image Ramps (approx 20 seconds duration)
5 x Christmas IDs (approx 10 seconds duration)

RIGHTS
If your pitch is successful, it will be purchased on an “all rights” basis, allowing BBC Radio 2 to exploit the package exclusively and in perpetuity. BBC Worldwide will take advantage of all publishing rights. This will result in a 50/50 split between composer and publisher.
If the previous sonic logo is to be retained, then a different rights deal will be negotiated.

TO BID FOR THIS PROJECT
To be considered for this project, please compile an audio CD or mp3 of demo idents for;
1. BBC Radio 2 News In
2.Ken Bruce Show Open
3.Mike Harding Folk and Roots Show Open

Each ident should be pitched 2 ways; first using the existing BBC Radio 2 sonic logo, second using a new sonic logo of your own composition for “BBC Radio 2”. If you wish to evolve our existing logo, we will also accept these additional versions in your pitch.
Pointers;
It is highly recommended that you listen to the Ken Bruce and Mike Harding
programmes and reflect their presentation and musical styles in your pitch.
The News In should be instrumental.
Each show open ident should feature vocals.
Whilst we don’t expect to hear real instrumentation at the demo stage, we do expect
to hear vocals which best reflect what your company can provide.
We’re looking for a rich and anthemic sound.
The composition should observe the individual feature/programme/genre but retain a
uniform feel.
Please note there is no payment for demo delivery. All copyright will remain with you and
no material will be broadcast, unless commissioned by the BBC.

Once compiled please send the following;
1.A CD or mp3 of your demo as outlined above
2.Cost of the Full Package Deliverables and an “all rights” buy-out cost as outlined
above.
3. Relevant information about your company which you feel may help our selection.

DEADLINE
We are accepting pitches for this project until 5pm February 11th 2011.

6 Music are also commissioning too:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/radio/network/6music.shtml

[AndyWaltersMember]

Finally..! All eyes turn to Mr. Wolfert…

[Barras]

My Jinglemad Signature for about two years was “Get JAM back on BBC Radio 2” and now it`s “get JAM back on English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Ireland, IoM and Channel Islands radio” – lets hope it`s true in 2011

[DavidHemsley]

Mcasso need not apply . . . . .

[fredgreek]

It'll be interesting to hear what it sounds like in the end.

As someone who only started listening to R2 in 2004, the current package has been in use so long that I don't remember Radio 2 without Groove Jingles!

[LenGroat]

I hate to disapoint everyone, and be 'Mr. Negative' so early in the 2011 'jingle-season', but I am afraid this brief leaves me COLD

Read it again ~ and see how often the word JINGLE is used…

I just see words like 'anthemic' and 'ramps'.

Whichever BBC committee composed the brief they are clearly of the 'Wise Buddah/ Groove Addicts' era and persuasion. Jon Wolfert's JAM could of course do a far superior job vocally and instrumentally, but does the brief allow that? They would probably only succeed if they used English singers (as opposed to jingle singers) with tracks that sound like records.

We'll see what transpires, but I found reading the document depressing, and if I ran a jingle comany ('ramp company') I'd hate to have both my hands and creativity tied firmly behind my back.

…Ramps by committee composed using exactly the same style we've had for 12 years…

Len

[DavidHemsley]

And I am not sure JAM would be up for this, either;

RIGHTS
If your pitch is successful, it will be purchased on an “all rights” basis, allowing BBC Radio 2 to exploit the package exclusively and in perpetuity

JAM would lose control of the material once delivered . . . on the other had, they would get paid royalties, surely?

[fredgreek]

JAM's packages may have been popular and used for years, but that doesn't mean that other jingle companies are automatically unsuitable for the job.

I don't see what's wrong with jingles of exactly the same style as the Groove Jingles. I'm sure JAM would be able to produce that style of jingle, and put their own mark on it – if that's what Radio 2 wants.

But I personally would like to see a UK company producing the new package.

[newsbeat]

Mcasso did some 6Music stuff in the past, some of it is still used today I think?

http://www.mcasso.com/radio/

I don't listen to Radio 2, but occasionally, I do listen to 6Music, the current package, if I'm honest, is starting to show its age. Same with the R1 News package.

[mbMemberAuthor]

On the subject of rights – We are now looking at a very different organisation from years ago. It is the job of the BBC to reduce costs and be as effective in rights negotiation as possible. I’m afraid that if you want to bid you have to accept the organisations rules. Isn’t that the world of procurement nowadays in large organisations it’s a fact of the process of bidding to work with large corporations.

Len – I think you need to think Glass half full !!! What are they looking for – Real instruments – A range of singers and styles, A big distinctive sound, Utilising the same or NEW Radio 2 logo, New Christmas jingles not just the regular tracks with bells on. I thought the brief was very open and I’m sure that all those bidding will be able to be creative, fun, innovative and bold within brief. Lets be brutally honest ( and i don’t love them ) but the current package has served well, has an embedded logo in people’s minds and been very very successful. I’m sure that the Radio 2 team are looking to be blow away rather than hear something safe.

[mbMemberAuthor]

Is this not a great topic to get jinglemad humming after a few cold days!!!

[DavidHemsley]

I'd like to see either AJ or S2Blue get it . . . . S2Blue tracks with LA vocals . . . that would be awesome.

[newsbeat]

Just listened to a little bit of Radio 2, the logo stays with you for ages. The current package works perfectly, and does everything its meant to do.

I also love the new travel bed!

I'm wondering, will R2 bring in dry voice/sweeper IDs like R1,R5L, and 6Music?

I don't think sweepers/dry voices will suit R2 well. They work perfectly on R1, XFM ect.

I'm interested in what both stations will sound like, as this is a big thing for them!

[mbMemberAuthor]

I'm not sure sweeper ID's are very “Radio 2” A little harsh and I think moving from the familar package to a new package would be a big enough upheaveal – i can imagine letters to feedback if Radio 2 went whoosh, zap, zoom.

[newsbeat]

This is the first time I've said this: – I hope they stick with sung jingles.

[IainJohnstonMember]

Doubt if S2Blue would get the commission – perhaps in the heyday of Alfasound a Radio 2 Custom from Messrs Fawkes & England would have been very interesting writing/musicianship/vocals-wise, if JAM had not been in the picture.

I just hope that, no matter what, Jon Wolfert at least puts in a serious bid in response to the RFQ; and indeed TM too for that matter (and even Freeway Paris, as I've often remarked before).

However, as suggested above, the “21st Century Ramp Generation” of “trendie-wendies” at the BBC have probably got the whole thing already “pencilled-in” for their “Preferred Bidder” – but I would be only too happy to see a truely QUALITY producer bag the contract – not another “underneath the arches” toytown effort as with BBC Locals.

PS – do the BBC's commissioning “people” actually understand the meaning of jingle-speak words such as “image” and “ramp” AT ALL?

A “RAMP” is(was) a BED up to an end-vocal, with the bed being intended (usually) for a DJ/presenter to “talk-over” or to have a “pre-recorded” voice-over”. Neither of these has EVER really been a Radio 2 “style” (except for one or two ex-commercial radio “jocks”), and indeed 99% of R2 presenters seem to NOT know how to even work a fader over a jingle at all, never mind attempt a “live speak” over a bed of (maximum) 20 seconds length! I think a LOT of offline training sessions would be required to get all those “TV celebrities” et al to use such material without endlessly “crashing the vocals” of the ID!

(A Story:
Many years ago, I worked for a certain big now-defunct UK company; a very big boss put out a HUGE “RFQ” (“Request for Quote”) right across dozens of companies within the Group; my local bosses absolutely slavered over this guy and his “position of authority” and (supposed) great ability & technical knowledge.

A little bit of the RFQ came down to lowly ME for attention; I'm no genius, but I found that the wording (especially BUZZ-WORDing) in the Spec was pure and utter bollocks. But everyone was jumping through hoops for this guy. I told people he was talking utter tripe, and it was costing megabucks to prepare vast amounts of paperwork for him through the RFQ. But everyone but me thought he was fantastic.

To cut a long story short – at a minor meeting I directly challenged him – and he admitted that he “had no idea what the “technical words & phrases” actually meant, but he'd read them in technical publications, and put them into the RFQ to see what would happen when people responded to them“! SO – beware “RFQs” where the “staff officers” commissioning the work are talking bollocks, and have just simply latched-on to current trendy “industry buzzwords”!)

PPS – the guy I mentioned “moved on” from the company a year or so later – after more and more people slowly came to realise that he been fooling people for years with “fancy big words” and “grand-standing” – he was actually only good at manipulating people, not engineering).

[LenGroat]

Oh dear….

This is worse than I first realised now I've read the informed comments of 'non-professionals' here, who I suspect know more about ramps (jingles) than the supposed 'professionals' at BBC Radio Two do.

To start with: any cogent musician/ writer, with any skill, will tell you there are only a few ways the melody can 'go' after 'Ray De O ' – the 'Two' is only one syllable and can only (musically) be sung in a few other notes

I do not see the 'Glass half full' I see a 'tin mug' of unknown capacity and credibility.

If the person or people who compiled the brief have anything to do with the 12 year duration of the previous 'packages' of 'ramps', there is ZERO hope for change. And yes, their use of terminology is seriously lacking, so Iain may well be right.

“New Christmas jingles not just the regular tracks with bells on”

Surely making 20% of the ramps be for Christmas is rather OTT? Rather than 5 Christmas cuts might it not make sense to have 2, and three SUMMER ones? After all the “12 Days of Christmas” hardly have the same impact on people's lives as the '90 days of summer' ? And I do not know many people who will BOTHER turning on Elaine Page on Christmas Day when Dr. Who is on BBC telly?

(BBC tv does scant/short news bulletins at weekends and holidays, so WHY would BBC Radio need 5 jingles for a time of year few people have time to listen to radio?)

Alan Fawkes: Yes Iain, Alan could certainly have written a superb package for the BBC – he had a way with melodies, was a musical perfectionist, and the last package I wrote with him which was recorded in Manchester/sung in Dallas, was the best he ever did.

Financial point: the process of offering this to many different companies, the evaluation, time, BBC procedures, will COST more than any savings the BBC might have made by just buying tracks 'off the shelf'.

For example, JAM or TM have 30 years worth, which cover the very same 30 years BBC Radio 2 does musically! So, how about (using JAM for example)

all of Magic Music 1 and 2
Omni Trax and
I'd Rather be in 'Britain'

With solo vocal versions by Elaine Page and Michael Ball…

…and group versions by the classic Dallas 7 or 5 voice vocal group, with Abby on lead.

And let the 'stars' / dj's CHOOSE to play which they prefer!

“Lets be brutally honest ( and i don’t love them ) but the current package has served well, has an embedded logo in people’s minds and been very very successful. I’m sure that the Radio 2 team are looking to be blow away rather than hear something safe.”

I REALLY hope so, but Radio 2 has only really succeeded, with its mix of 'stars' and a few real deejays, as Radio 1 has been SO BADLY run for 15 years, and the commercial competion is a global joke.

I fear the worse. And of course many at JM will be holding their breath…. there will be a 'confinement period' in which (amongst others) Jon at JAM will (sensibly) not comment: we will just have to wait for the birth….

…. and hope it's not an 'ugly baby'!

Len

http://www.4shared.com/audio/p8GeMyvh/DIA_-_Len_Groat_namecheck.html

[GrahamCollins]

I'm obviously excited about this. We have waited a long time for any hint of a change. It's now or never for taking the station sound in a slightly different direction.

Let's hope that whatever airs is polished and sounds truly world class – the Groove jingles aways sound like demos to me, in need of a lush or bigger mix with much more reverb.

And finally let's hope 'the talent' bloody use them!

[IainJohnstonMember]

“Financial point: the process of offering this to many different companies, the evaluation,…”

Len, this is how many (American, especially) military projects have been “commissioned” for many years – a big RFQ, n-amount of people doing the design and the prototype (often AT THE COMPANIES' OWN EXPENSE), and the “Winner Takes All”. The “Losers” spend lots of time & effort, but don't get the big production contract, but still have to do all the “difficult bits”.

Thats how the Boeing 747 was created (RFQ for a troop transport) – Tristar and DC10 were the “losers” – which of those aircraft is “still winning” all these years later?

As for the Radio 2 RFQ – I don't think “off the shelf” is the answer – nor is going back-in-time in “style” – but having also re-read the “Spec”, and especially seeing that ghastly word buzzword-of-the-moment “brand“, I think this is the R2 response to the (perceived) “competition threat” from Global – so the answer I suspect in the mindset of “today's BBC” will be to “sound more like them“, which would be totally silly, as its R2's high-quality DIFFERENCE from the statistics-led/focusgroup/narrowcast mentality of (some) commercial operators that has helped R2 to its dominant position.

Sadly, BBC Radio appears to lack anyone of the stature and compehension of Johnny Beerling et al – but we can't go back, nor solely think with rose-coloured glasses.

As Chalks says, lets hope for “polished….truly world class” – but they won't get that with “20 ramps that can be digitally-spliced-&-diced into 20 different mixes each, provided by our nice old mate **** round the corner“. Even creaking old Alfasound custom packages delivered far more content, style and variation! And some R2 “proper DJs” even have 2,3,4 “Personal Cuts” for their own individual programmes (as even some JMer do! ;^)…).

This RFQ smacks of the BBC Local Mcasso approach – I sincerely hope that the result is NOT anything so banal, especially if we end up STILL hearing the “new package” IN 2024!!!

PS – why such a tight deadline of 11th February??? ..compared with 13 years of the existing package & its variants? Has someone been given a “sneak preview”???

(…sorry for being so cynical – I've seen too much of how “things are done”…)

[mbMemberAuthor]

Wow – well no doubt this started a heated debate – but all good natured I hope!

Whatever they choose I guess some of us are not going to like. This is a very open race.

JAM, TM, IQ, Reelworld, S2Blue, Pure Tonic, Top Format, Brandy, Wise Buddha – Who wouldn’t want to have their imaging on the network!?

I do feel that there are very harsh / unfair comments abound about what people at the corporation are or are not like. There are various members on here like Nicky who I’m sure would agree that whatever people’s opinions may be there are a lot of people in BBC Network radio who do know what they are doing and have been in radio for many years. But I’m going to respond in the vein of having a good debate which I am happy to have!!!

1.
There is no reason on earth why S2Blue, JAM, Top format, Groove, IQ Beats, Pure Tonic, On the Sly, Bespoke, Wise Buddha et al would not get the commission. It is totally open and there are no preferred bidders or chosen companies. I nor anyone on here has any evidence or reason to believe otherwise. It is unfair to suggest that it is not if there is no evidence.

2.
The specification regarding logo is fairly open. If there is a good variation then I’m sure it would be considered. The current logo is owned by Groove and even if used by a new provider rights would have to be paid. That is partially the reason for the option to try a new logo – as well as trying a new sound the end price will be affected by such a rights issue.

3.
Radio 2 is a contemporary station that plays a wide selection of music, I’m sure some of the 70s and 80s JAM packages are very nice but I suspect not what they want to image a (the biggest ) national BBC station in 2011, As one of the biggest stations of their kind in the world they want to set the criteria and style for their imaging and not what WABP wanted in 1978.

4.
With the reduction in stations in both Europe and the US we should celebrate anyone who is commissioning NEW jingles rather than rehashing old syndicated packages. I’m sorry but I’m not sure that many people would agree that the way forward for Radio 2 is to have a package of resings of old TM or JAM’s ( or any producers ) back catalogue. Just as those sounded modern in their day so I would suspect that Radio 2 want to sound modern and contemporary today. And let’s be honest there are more companies around today who offer a great choice in the UK, Europe and the US.

5.
The size of the package was “anticipated” but there is no reason why jingles cannot be sung with different lyrics or mixes for different shows / day parts / seasons / shows. So who know they may end up with “Summer” jingles. It’s only an invite to pitch.

This brief allows those who want to pitch to showcase what they can do and their ideas. PLUS it is only a briefing document they do advise those who wish to produce jingles to contact the network. Who knows what those discussions could be or detail they would contain. Many of those who have done work for Radio 2 as well as those who wish to will be calling the network and I don’t know the briefing process but I suspect that the station team are happy to provide more detail, views and thoughts for those bidding which we will not see.
People are not supposed to go away after reading this and submit a demo – it’s an invitation for those serious to contact the network and work from there.

[Barras]

LenGroat wrote:
there will be a 'confinement period' in which (amongst others) Jon at JAM will (sensibly) not comment:…

Len

I`m hoping we get to hear Jon Wolfert say these magic words….

http://jinglemad.com/e107_files/public/1294650874_3680_FT83986_jam-jmw_new_jingles_for_bbc_radio_2.mp3 filename:jam-jmw_new_jingles_for_bbc_radio_2.mp3

[LenGroat]

Iain : thanks for being 'cynical' ~ at least I'm not alone..

Michael: sorry, some of my points was meant to be taken 'tongue in cheek' ~ I think Radio 2 presenters Michael Ball and Elaine Page might be more use to the station singing on the jingles ~ BUT suspect their efforts would not equal a Dallas vocal group led by Abby Anderson!

To be serious, why on earth are they going through this process when the BEST jingles they ever had (on Radio 2 and 1) were made after just a few phone calls and faxes between Brosdcasting House and JAM or PAMS? Cut the committee and send Johnny Beerling and Steve England across to JAM… THEY would soon sort it out !

Len

[newsbeat]

Just to get this straight, is this how it is, (if I’m wrong, can someone please post correctly!)

– Did Groove create the sonic logo in 1997, along with a package that the News cuts have been used until October 2010. The Groove logo has been injected into updates from Wise Buddah.

[mbMemberAuthor]

Yes, yes, yes.
With permission there have been some Wise Buddah vocals sung onto Groove tracks ( new presenters etc ) and Wise Buddah have produced jingles with the Groove logo.
As i understand.

[DavidHemsley]

Michael Bolton wrote:
Yes, yes, yes.
With permission there have been some Wise Buddah vocals sung onto Groove tracks ( new presenters etc ) and Wise Buddah have produced jingles with the Groove logo.
As i understand.

And of course, the new commission will give total control of the tracks/logo's etc to Radio 2 to do with very mush as they want . . . . and for that reason I don't think JAM will even pitch for it.

[Author]

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