JonesTMCentury21 new packs

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  • #4881
    945KBAYguy

      AMP'd Digital News Lite FM Briliant Expantion pack and TFM Radio on http://www.jonestm.com

      #31573
      radiojingles.co.nr

        are the vocals recorded in Dallas, i think it has to rehash its vocals, they need to polish the “Q” on the jingles. Log on to http://www.radiojingles.co.nr

        #31577
        LenGroat


          I have the new Jones TM and Wise Buddah CD's and they both seem to have a problem with VOCAL CLARITY

          Q102 ~ It does sound like the male is singing ' Quoy 102' (cut 2)

          whereas the woman sings ' another dog free weekend' (cut 3)

          &

          'Currants and glasses' (cut 8 )

          and WHY does the engineer add SO MUCH EEECCCHHHOOO ??

          Some of the tracks are quite good, and the singers are ok, but it's destroyed by the echo and over souled singing

          #31578
          JingleMad
          Member

            Can you please complain to Jones TM about this instead sted of here, Len?

            #31579
            LenGroat

              I was under the impression this forum was about discussing jingles, and their respective merits ?

              When you cannot hear what a jingle is singing, surely THAT is a valid point??

              If you run ANY company you are of course totally open to public debate and opinion on your product.

              #31580
              martinlester
              Member

                LenGroat wrote:
                I was under the impression this forum was about discussing jingles, and their respective merits ?

                When you cannot hear what a jingle is singing, surely THAT is a valid point??

                If you run ANY company you are of course totally open to public debate and opinion on your product.

                I have to agree with Len on this one

                If we all sent comments directly to the Jingle company then we might as well close down the jinglemad site

                also lets not forget most of the Major Jingle company's read what is said Bruce upchurch from Zone, Jon Wolfert from JAM and of course Chris Stevens from JonesTM have all posted remarks in the past

                and they are more than welcome to add a comment about any package which is normally “Thats what the client wanted”

                #31582
                radiojingles.co.nr

                  “Q102 ~ It does sound like the male is singing ' Quoy 102' (cut 2)

                  whereas the woman sings ' another dog free weekend' (cut 3)

                  these really had me chuckling! hahaha!

                  the whole point here is that jingles should have 'vocal clarity'.

                  I MEAN THINK ABOUT IT. Jingles are made not just for program directors, jingles are targeted to listeners!

                  and if listeners hear jingles singing … “another dog free weekend”…[chuckles] what kind of impression will that leave for them. A station earns so hard just to get a jingle package and it should be done the right way.

                  In fairness however to Jones tm , if you listened to cut #3 and cut#2 again, then you'll be able to get the right words. But then again first impressions last for listeners, if they heard a jingle saying Quoy 102, they will think the station name is Quoy 102!

                  the Reverb, the echoeing, as len said, and the Cher effect thing or whatever is that they call it, im not a sound engineer, but from a listener's point of perspective, they are just sugar coatings.

                  the singers have good voice, are they american singers anyway?

                  anyhow, lets give the package a chance, and i mean, the package is already out, how else could it be out, if the pd didnt like it?

                  #31589
                  IainJohnston
                  Member

                    LenGroat wrote: …………..the woman sings ' another dog free weekend' (cut 3)

                    LOL!
                    I'd picked up on that one too Len ! I presume they mean a
                    “Talk-Free Weekend” – though that obviously is a new trendy
                    phrase to excuse the use of 100% automation at weekends
                    (…though THAT debate is for other Forums of course!)

                    Regarding lack of clarity due to over-use of voice processing
                    /effects, it should be remembered that supposedly “conventional”
                    vocal group sound can still be almost un-intelligble e.g. the
                    notorious use of rushed crammed-in lyrics by Thomson Creative
                    – Palm Torquay comes to mind.

                    Perhaps today's PDs/PCs need to learn from history – in the early
                    60s WABC New York's PD (wish I could remember which one)
                    deliberately had his audition tapes of jingles from PAMS played
                    out not through the super-duper high-quality sound system in the
                    studios but instead through a tiny 3″ speaker to simulate what
                    listeners would actually hear on their new-fangled transistor radios.

                    Maybe with the “bubbling mud” on DAB and pirate-interferance
                    riddled FM in some areas, today's young and past-history-experience
                    lacking station personnel need to sit down and try to simulate or
                    re-create what the product might sound like in real life BEFORE
                    buying it?

                    Or do they really just buy it because its trendy to do so?
                    (Garden patio heaters, anyone?!)

                    #31598
                    martinlester
                    Member

                      Wixy1360 wrote:

                      …………..the woman sings ' another dog free weekend' (cut 3)

                      LOL!
                      I'd picked up on that one too Len ! I presume they mean a
                      “Talk-Free Weekend” – though that obviously is a new trendy
                      phrase to excuse the use of 100% automation at weekends
                      (…though THAT debate is for other Forums of course!)

                      Regarding lack of clarity due to over-use of voice processing
                      /effects, it should be remembered that supposedly “conventional”
                      vocal group sound can still be almost un-intelligble e.g. the
                      notorious use of rushed crammed-in lyrics by Thomson Creative
                      – Palm Torquay comes to mind.

                      The woman is singing “ Another Drug Free Weekend ” not that I would have know from the singing !

                      Its just lucky JonesTM provides the Lyric sheet but lets face it what a Crap lyric for a jingle
                      whoever decided on that must have been on something when they asked for that to be sung

                      As for the Palm Jingle I have to agree however its nothing to do with the singers it was just so poorly adapted
                      as JW once said ” If you try to replace “All Hits!” with something like “The Number One Hit Music Station in the Greater Tri-County Area!”, you may be disappointed with the results” as this was one of the packages produced while trying to sell off the company I can only assume they was not that interested as in the past they did produce some very good work

                      #31599
                      IainJohnston
                      Member

                        Fair comment Martin!

                        Made me go back and listen to cut 3 again several
                        times, and with headphones – and it still sounds like
                        like “dog-free” or “talk-free” weekend!

                        Good instrumentation on the track though.

                        (Bring back the REAL TM Productions!
                        http://www.4shared.com/file/20733019/3b08e96b/TM-Productions-TheTMSong-Stereo.html)

                        #31601
                        Devaweb
                        Member

                          These are the real TM productions :)

                          But so is KVIL Signature, and Perfect Music, and PLJ07, and Viking FM. A wide range of products, for a wide range of clients. But all from TM. And, in the case of Amp'd, a co-production with Wise Buddah.

                          I don't expect many people to like ALL our stuff, but I hope that most people will like SOME of our stuff. Because that's what's great about jingles, what works for one person doesn't work for others.

                          It's a bit like dating, but with less candles!

                          ChrisUK – Lover of most jingles :)

                          PS – It's another jock free weekend… sounds like the lyric sheet got typed up wrong…

                          #31602
                          radiojingles.co.nr

                            Hello, Mr. Stevens.

                            With all due respect, we love TM, Jones TM. But I knew it was “jock” free weekend and not “dog” free weekend,anyhow, i've just went to the Jones TM site and i saw the q102 cuts are gone.

                            were they replaced? Nuff said about the q102 vocal stuff though.

                            But Chris, thanks for coming into the scene.
                            i, too, am a lover of most jingles.

                            #31603
                            radiojingles.co.nr

                              oh hey, the q102 jingles are back.

                              #31613
                              LenGroat

                                It is indeed good that Chris Stevens responds on this site. It's a pity some of the PD's / creative people at the stations don't respond, after all they tend to control the lyric content of jingles.

                                ' another dog free weekend'

                                I actually could hear :

                                ' another drug free weekend'

                                and

                                ' another dark free weekend'

                                But I NEVER heard the word 'jock'

                                THERE IS A MORAL HERE:

                                Whoever it may be that writes lyrics, they need to remember that certain words just do NOT sing well no matter WHICH singers sing them

                                This Q102 package has 'jock' (hard ending, soft first letter, it's an almost INVISIBLE word…)

                                Eclectic : I doubt if half the listeners* would even know what it means (?) and it sings TERRIBLY

                                Currents, is also a perfect example, it again 'sings' terribly and we hear 'currants ! !amazed

                                Sometimes it is the PLACING of the difficult word in the sequence, that makes it work, or not work. For example 'NewsTalk' and 'Talk' are not easy to sing clearly but if you listen to how JAM sing them and place them, they work. The KOST package from JAM has a lyric 'Continuous soft hits with less talk' and the track is written so the singers can ESTABLISH those key words 'less talk'.

                                No one has commented that the end 'block' / notes on this Quoy 102 package are extremely similar to the style used by ReelWorld? From that point of view I would agree with Wixy and say these do NOT sound like TM jingles.

                                Finally, as regards Chris's analogy, It's a bit like dating, but with less candles!

                                I would say It's a bit like dating, but with a blow torch – it burns out very quickly'

                                * If jingle packages HAVE to have EVERY cut with just ONE phrase, the programme people are assuming the listeners are not bright enough to recall just the station name, so WHY use words like 'eclectic' ?

                                #31614
                                LenGroat


                                  POSTSCRIPT

                                  I forgot to mention the last comment from Chris Stevens:

                                  'PS – It's another jock free weekend… sounds like the lyric sheet got typed up wrong'

                                  I checked the lyric sheet online and it DOES say 'drug'…

                                  ….. and so I HAVE to say : !lol

                                  'sounds like the person at Jones TM who typed the lyric sheet ALSO could not hear what was being sung !!! '

                                  My point is made….

                                  #31615
                                  Good Time Oldie

                                    I have not heard the jingles you're currently talkng about, so I can't really comment on that.

                                    However, I would like to run with the point Len makes about some words working better than others. As an example, I have asked the wonderful JW at JAM to sing the word “Wireless” many times and each time he has advised me that's it a hard word to sing and suggested something different. I must be honest and say he was right, but it's the fact that he offered the advise in the first place which is the main thing.

                                    Finally, speaking generally, I just wonder how many Programmers actually have the balls to get back to the jingle company to point out any errors with a package, I know I do, and I am just a humble little nobody.

                                    #31617
                                    martinlester
                                    Member

                                      LenGroat wrote:

                                      No one has commented that the end 'block' / notes on this Quoy 102 package are extremely similar to the style used by ReelWorld? From that point of view I would agree with Wixy and say these do NOT sound like TM jingles.

                                      I forgot to mention the last comment from Chris Stevens:

                                      'PS – It's another jock free weekend… sounds like the lyric sheet got typed up wrong'

                                      I checked the lyric sheet online and it DOES say 'drug'…

                                      ….. and so I HAVE to say : !lol

                                      'sounds like the person at Jones TM who typed the lyric sheet ALSO could not hear what was being sung !!! '

                                      My point is made….

                                      I think why this does not sound like a Jones TM package is the soloist sounds to me like Emily McIntosh ( correct me if I am wrong) but she is the Main Vocalist on 90% of the Reelworld and IQ Beats Packages

                                      I am wondering as Reelworld/ IQ Beats are in Seattle if she was in the Jones TM studio or was this just sung remotely- could this be why the care and attention vocally was missing as this is not typical of Jones TM

                                      While I accept that we are not all going to like every Jingle

                                      The fact that so many people
                                      including the JonesTM Employee !shy could not understand what was sung is not a good sign, as what chance do the listners have !

                                      I for example did not care much for the WiseBudda Capital Radio new Jingles

                                      But a least you can Clearly hear that they are singing CAP-IT-AL on every cut

                                      #31619
                                      mattii70

                                        Martin Lester wrote:
                                        I for example did not care much for the WiseBudda Capital Radio new Jingles

                                        But a least you can Clearly hear that they are singing CAP-IT-AL on every cut

                                        I have to agree with you here, however Power FM have had the package resung and Wise Buddah have attempted to pack four syllables into three and it just sounds awful and inaudible. The demo is on the Wise Buddah site.

                                        #31627
                                        LenGroat


                                          Matt

                                          When the jingle company tries to pack four syllables into a space which only holds three, it's the time for them as the 'musical people' to tell the client it won't work. However, getting a new client or just keeping the client happy and bringing in the MONEY takes priority with SOME companies.

                                          I also believe that engineers who work with synthetic tracks do NOT necessarily read music OR understand WHAT fits and what doesn't.

                                          Martin

                                          If they used Emily McIntosh and it was done remotely, it explains the very casual approach to CLARITY.

                                          I met Tom Merriman many times (and of course the delightful Jackie) and spent many social weekends with them, they are both perfectionists. I'm certain that in the 'old days' of Tom's GREAT company such sloppy singing would never have been tolerated.

                                          Maybe it would be better if they just called themselves 'Jones Jingles'

                                          Wooof!

                                          Oh that's my Rover, so it looks like I won't be having another dog free weekend ! !lol

                                          #31652
                                          IainJohnston
                                          Member

                                            Its said that people should study HISTORY, so that they can learn to avoid the mistakes already made by others in the past, and so make the future better (or “avoiding re-inventing the wheel and it coming out square” for those
                                            of you who may recognise that phrase often heard at a well-known UK electronics company!)

                                            Power FM…resung… pack four syllables into three and it just sounds awful and inaudible

                                            This is called “cramming to fit” and as I've said before,
                                            Thomson Creative were notorious for it. Yet you can
                                            hear all about it, and how TM Productions designed a
                                            major new concept package to avoid that and other
                                            previous problems, by listening to…TM's “Phase II”
                                            demo from circa 1970.

                                            Copies are still out there – the package is a wee bit old-fashioned
                                            now, but the musical & production principles stand the test of time
                                            (and Tom Merriman, JW, and the “musical people” as Len rightly
                                            describes them, know the difference between musical instruments
                                            (or synthetic ones) digitally thrown together making up a track
                                            versus a proper “musical composition”).

                                            TM Phase II is “Jingle Composition 101” for anyone wishing to learn
                                            a little of the basics about how to write jingles! For more advanced study,
                                            JAM's “First 20 Years…” 2 CD set!

                                            To this day, you can hear echos of the musical structuring
                                            that TM used there to support 6-sylable W- AND 4-sylable
                                            K- call signs when you hear the best of JAM, TM/Century
                                            and Alfasound musical structuring – its usually (but not always)
                                            a 3-chord pad sequence under the station name. That structure
                                            supports all kinds of call-letters, station names (even silly ones), DJ
                                            names, frequencies, slogans (including kebabs and Sweden!), etc.

                                            Also, anyone who listens to US station versions of JAM jingles
                                            resung for Radio One in e.g. the 1980s can hear that for
                                            the BBC versions there are slighly different drums/percussion
                                            under the “Radio One” name part of the vocals, where JAM
                                            made slight adaptions to the cuts rather than “forcing” a fit.

                                            “…soloist sounds to me like Emily McIntosh….Main Vocalist on 90%
                                            of the Reelworld and IQ Beats Packages…”
                                            (and obviously now
                                            JonesTM, or at least someone using a very similar vocal style).

                                            I won't enter into the merits or otherwise of the lady's singing talents (already
                                            discussed!), but can anyone imagine if in the 1960s & 70s EVERY single jingle
                                            ,EVERY single CUT, on EVERY single radio station in EVERY city or town
                                            in countries all over the world HAD ONLY used the (legendary and distinctive)
                                            TRELLA HART no matter what jingle company they bought their jingles from,
                                            it would all have sounded absolutely awful and monotonous (no matter what
                                            the talent or high quality of the singer's work), and every station would have been
                                            indistinguishable from their neighbours.

                                            Yet that seems to be the direction its all going in!

                                            So…
                                            When the jingle company tries to pack four syllables into a space which only holds
                                            three, it's the time for them as the 'musical people' to tell the client it won't work
                                            .”

                                            If as Len appears to be suggesting, some of the people at today's Jingle Companies
                                            no longer possess the musical & production expertise of their predecessors, then
                                            its time they went and studied the HISTORY of their craft (or realised why JAM
                                            still have a lot of “old hands” on their staff – they KEEP the knowledge!), otherwise
                                            we'll be hearing more and more “Square Wheels”!

                                            (This is starting to get too much like writing essays back at school!)

                                            #31662
                                            radiojingles.co.nr

                                              sure thang, the jingles sound “like” Emily's voice, but im 100% sure it's not emily macintosh, as if i know emily.

                                              But hey, we've listened to a lot of emily's works in the past from Reelworld to IQ Beats, She's very professional. I think the female voice of TFM Radio is a European Singer trying to sound like American. Pls correct me.

                                              #31663
                                              martinlester
                                              Member

                                                radiojingles.co.nr wrote:
                                                sure thang, the jingles sound “like” Emily's voice, but im 100% sure it's not emily macintosh, as if i know emily.

                                                But hey, we've listened to a lot of emily's works in the past from Reelworld to IQ Beats, She's very professional. I think the female voice of TFM Radio is a European Singer trying to sound like American. Pls correct me.

                                                Chris will be able to confirm if it is Emily Macintosh or not I noticed he did say the Vocal's were recorded in the States!

                                                Also the TFM Radio I would not expect an European Singer to be involved, in fact I would guess they were recorded in Dallas ! (but I might be wrong)

                                                #31669
                                                DavidHemsley

                                                  Jingle junky wrote:
                                                  Can you please complain to Jones TM about this instead sted of here, Len?

                                                  Pointless having forums JJ if you can't voice opinions . . . . .

                                                  #31695
                                                  LenGroat


                                                    Martin's comment: we've listened to a lot of Emily's works in the past from Reelworld to IQ Beats, She's very professional

                                                    AGREED

                                                    The singer has little control over levels, echo, or even her performance. The producer, engineer (and if he's there) the 'client', control this. If they don't like a take, she has to do the solo again.

                                                    After 3-4 hours clarity can easily go out the studio window… with SOME companies

                                                    #31807
                                                    Barras

                                                      Another fascinating post on Jingle Mad with some salient points expressed about mis-hearing jingle lyrics. On a similar theme, I remember Bruno Brookes on Radio One used to have a Top 10 chart of “twisted lyrics”. You hear some lyrics from a song (or jingle !) and the brain`s hearing perception, mis-interprets the original lyric and you actually hear other words.

                                                      For example, Bruno had this song from Peter Gabriel which sounds like he`s “PEEING IN THE RIVER”.

                                                      http://www.4shared.com/file/21395622/d147114d/TwistedLyric_PeeingInThe_River.html?cau2=403tNull

                                                      What about “YOU`VE GOT FUNNY TITS”

                                                      http://www.4shared.com/file/21396065/3d7792b6/TwistedLyric_Funny.html?cau2=403tNull

                                                      In this Roxy Music song called Avalon – you can hear Bryan Ferry sing “HAVE A LOAN”

                                                      http://www.4shared.com/file/21395612/fa6a428e/TwistedLyric_Have_A_Loan.html?cau2=403tNull

                                                      David Barras

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